I try to be an understanding guy. So, if I were to share Calderon's values, I would describe Mexico's laws as unacceptable violations of your fundamental human rights...

Wait, the guy who just described an unacceptable violation of fundamental rights presides over a nation which violates those same fundamental human rights even more than the violation which he described? This seems like a really obvious and thus ridiculous conversation to be having. Why didn't Obama even hint at this absurdity?

The #2 kidnapping capital of the world is in the United States, compliments of illegal immigrants. This is unacceptable to the standards of the United States of America. And there are many other costs associated with illegal immigrants, who are not taxed and productive members of American society.

My ancestors immigrated legally. America doesn't want those too inept to follow the law in moving here.

Nobody is suggesting killing them. Straw man attacked, straw man attack ignored.

You used the word "paranoid" without qualifying it. You're saying that America is the "least paranoid" of all nations on earth concerning immigrants? Then why is it "amusing"?

You did not address any of the insults I found in Obama's conduct. Also, I don't think America's Mexico border has many parallels with Israel's borders. Little more history there than is relevant to this thread.

Please cite your source for claims that many Americans have a paranoid fear of immigration or believe that they are "superior" to immigrants. As you pointed out, most (vast majority) are the descendants of immigrants. Why do you call it paranoia to point out that Americans have a huge kidnapping problem because of illegals? Why do you call it paranoia to point out that Americans are being murdered in large numbers because of illegals? Why do you call it paranoia to point out that illegals cost American taxpayers many billions of dollars annually? I tire of repeating these questions and getting responses neither to my initial post taking insult at Obama's words nor to my common-sense questions.

Posting that "You should just have more lax immigration policy than any other nation on earth or I'll call you paranoid" does not address my points. In fact, it validates them.

Phoenix didn't reach 2nd place for kidnapping capital in the world because of any other factor than illegal immigration from Mexico. America is a nation of laws, and without an influx of illegal immigrants  who come from a more lawless land not respecting these laws and corrupt politicians refusing to deport them, Phoenix would be like the rest of America--Nowhere on any kidnapping rank list.

Why would Obama seem like a good statesman for standing there and bowing his head to insults, but Calderon not seem like a bad statesman for making ignorant and hypocritical remarks? Has being weak and accepting ignorant insults ever been the sign of a good leader in history? Why would Obama, who is the representative for the United States of America--the most prosperous nation on earth and champion of individual rights--seem unreasonable to not stand there and be insulted like an ignorant jackass by the leader of an economic midget who cannot even defeat drug lords within its own borders?

I'm not going to waste more time embarrassing myself in response to a child. Provide statistics that prove that, percentage-wise, immigrants (I presume you meant illegal? It's an important distinction. Perhaps you should make it.) are responsible for more crime than Americans? (Your statement, I just used the right words and grammar) I didn't make such a claim, or any claim that depends on such a claim being true. Even if illegal immigrants had less than 50% the crime rate of citizens, that wouldn't necessarily be an argument for amnesty--which it seems you're arguing for in every weird statement you make and question you ask.

You're repeating generic arguments that the USA have no immigration policy and let everyone on earth who wants in immigrate. But no other country on earth does this, as it would create all sorts of problems, as it does in the USA. Claims that it's somehow ignorant or unproductive or immoral for the USA to enforce its immigration policy are ignorant and ridiculous. Would you make these arguments for every nation on earth? Of course not. Only to the USA, out of some sort of misdirected jealousy, because the USA has things you want, so you must deserve them and the USA must owe them to you.

>>Provide statatistics if you are going to make such remarks.<<

Read the news. There are stories of many murders in border towns. And not all kidnapping victims make it home safe. You have to pay me if you want me to run a news service for you. I'm not talking about anything but well-established and irrefutable facts here. And I made it clear in my initial post that I wasn't interested in discussing your willful ignorance.

>>Both statements are equally valid if truth cannot be ascertained.<<

But the truth can be ascertained. And even if it couldn't, I wouldn't be as concerned about Americans executing criminals as much as I am for criminals murdering American citizens.

I'm done wasting time with your bullshit. You haven't responded to a single one of the concerns in my initial post. You've done nothing but equivocate over information you obviously have access to, having an internet connection, but have chosen to ignore in favor of harassing me in asking for documentation of information that my points do not even depend upon. I've entertained your childish harassment long enough. I even addressed why I wasn't interested in this embarrassing, intellectually-retarded exchange in closing my initial post. I've been patient, and now I've humored you long enough. It's time to stop spamming now. This conversation is obviously over your head. Have a nice day.

So you wouldnt care about Americans becoming criminals and murdering people but you find it appalling that illegals could do that? Nice logic.

I have read many news sites that report that percentage wise illegal immigrants commit far less crime than the "native" American populus (though this is clearly failing to realise that by American law they are all criminals for entering the country seeking a better life)

If you had read my posts I actually do talk about why I think Obama not stooping to the level of the Mexican politician was a good move.

Again you resort to insults - thus propagating the image of the angry right wing American - When people disagree with you you get angry and shout obscenities and cuddle yourself with your supposed superior intellect - Though I congratulate you, you have brought me down to your level of insults, something Obama was wise enough to avoid in the initial topic.

Hey Primo, want to delete every post after the first 3 for being off-topic? Thanks.

>>So you wouldnt care about Americans becoming criminals and murdering people but you find it appalling that illegals could do that? Nice logic.<<

I didn't say I wouldn't care, merely that there's no parallel as you claimed.

>>I have read many news sites that report that percentage wise illegal immigrants commit far less crime than the "native" American populus (though this is clearly failing to realise that by American law they are all criminals for entering the country seeking a better life)<<

And I already explained why it doesn't matter.

>>If you had read my posts I actually do talk about why I think Obama not stooping to the level of the Mexican politician was a good move.<<

He accepted the behavior without censure, which is encouragement when the behavior is an international televised event in which they both appear together.

>>Again you resort to insults<<

I didn't insult you. I eventually realized that you're a troll and you've effectively ruined pages of thread. Now anyone unfortunate enough to read them is going to just be annoyed.

This post took about 30 seconds to put together. It was 90% "you're completely wrong and can't even read to post what you just posted," correcting you for dumb things I don't care to have spammed in a thread I took the time to put together. And EVERYTHING you've posted has been completely off-topic. I asked you politely to stop trolling, spamming this thread. Then I was honest. Don't cry about my honesty like a baby. Imagine how sad it looks from my end that such is the honest truth. And stop spamming.

Edit: Hey Primo or any mod, want to delete every post after the first 3 for being off-topic spam? Thanks.

Khaz, kidnapping for ransom had practically been eliminated in the USA

One the public hates it

Two it offended the honor of many ethnic mafias

Three even if a mobster didn't mind it himself, by ratting out a mercenary kidnapper he could bargain down almost any other felony. And it almost always requires accomplices to kidnap for ransom.

It just brings down so much heat it aint even possible to do serially even if you felt like it. Easier to rob 40 banks than kidnap for ransom 2x

It is common in Latin America though and as those crooks move north it has appeared here

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

notice the rise over the recent years, just as we had the boom in immigration since 2000.

also I am not paranoid about foriegners marching in our streets, masked, waving THEIR flag and demanding we renounce OUR laws against their unregulated labor, unlicensed commerce and untaxed transfer of billions to their home country.

Hey Chris, thanks for the link it was really interesting - There does seem to be a definite link with kidnapping at least (a crime that is never justifiable)

To be fair my first post was more poking fun at the issue then being serious, I agree all country need limits on immigration but after the post by einstein of "lets invade mexico" etc the issue of immigration is one source of amusement just for the reactions it garners from certain quarters.

As far as I know about the Arizona laws they are not protesting against the laws that apply to every person in America but a law that is targetting them specifically - I still have little sympathy as my attitude is and always will be that if the country you have immigrated to offends you so much then they should leave it.

>>I spoke about immigration, Obamas response and then merely responded to you.<<

None of which are the topic of the thread. By "responded to you" you mean whined that I do not support amnesty and asked for support for well-known facts upon which my points were not dependent. I've said all this before but your reading comprehension seems low.

>>As to your claim you did not resort to insults? "I'm not going to waste more time embarrassing myself in response to a child."<<

I should have considered the chance that you may, in fact, be mentally challenged.

>>Truth requires more then your "its true because i say it" logic.<<

Would you like to get philosophical and discuss the Truth? You'll have to stop intentionally (or idiotically) misinterpreting my clear statements and misusing the word "logic," which you are clearly not equipped to discuss before we can have such an off-topic spamming discussion.

>>My friend grow up and stop being the embarrising ambasador for your nation, I like America but sadly these forums are home to the occasional low brow right winger like yourself... <<

If you're going to call me a right-winger, why don't you back it up with specific statements from my first post. Why don't you explain how they make me a "right winger." That would, at least, border on  the topic, because it would be a direct response to the initial post of the thread, regardless that you have not once responded to a point in that post. I'm a right winger because I do not support amnesty for all and you do? That's not a lot of basis for your claim. You've repeatedly misinterpreted my statements despite their clarity. You've repeatedly responded to and asked for responses to claims I never made. You've repeatedly demanded support for facts upon which my points do not depend. I've said all this before but your reading comprehension seems low. Talk about low-brow.

Stop whining. Stop spamming. Don't go away mad. Just go away.