Topic: Highways and Infrastructure?

Leaving aside the current 1.2 trillion dollar bill does nothing significant towards this goal, lets analyze the current actual infrastructure and road situation.


I have driven now about 35 of the States, with a few sections of the deep NE and the traditional south being the exceptions, of course Hawaii and Alaska are not on the list either.



So in my own way I can testify to the condition of roads. I added up my driving to a total of 35,000 miles in the last 5 months. I have driven the length of I-90, I-84, and many other interstates, as well as US highways and State Highways.


For example tonight I am driving from Fort Dodge IA to Cheyenne IA. This is taking me down State Highways, best described as Rural Highways. I stopped for a little on route to post this as I have time to burn tonight, and a desire to post this.


The 'state' of our roads is at best exaggerated. I have found few States with severe road problems, most of the bad roads being in Illinois, Oregon, and New York (They are not crumbling, just a maze, and the drivers there... they will cut you off if they think there is 3 inches room between you and the guy in front of you extra beyond the length of their car... or semi truck!!! But I stress it is a maze of bridges over bridges leading to bridges... I think they need Paul Bunyan.)

The vast majority of the roads are in pretty decent shape. Now then there is some bad stretches, but the amount of construction is in line with the amount of work needing to be done.


There are roads with the square segments, which make your vehicle bounce, but that's manageable. There are some roads with truck grooves, but there is construction before/after those segments where they are repaving such roads already.


I can understand why California has budget issues, they turned every state highway in the valleys into an interstate, but with their population it should be manageable. Indeed their roads are top shape right now.

So I can say this, our roads are not dying by the droves.




Now for infrastructure.

One of the biggest proposed is Schools, though not on the spending bill... hmm...

Home schooling represents 1.5 million minors in the United States right now
http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2009030
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_United_States

This is up 74% from 1999.


And yet there is 82 million students
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_of_the_united_states

There was 76 million students at 1999, so this means there is a net increase of about 5 million students

At this time there is just over a million charter school spots, which has come about in the past 9 years, therefore we now have a net gain of 4 million.


This represents a 5% increase in the total number of students.

Yet from 1999 to 2004 (NOT THE FULL RANGE) total spending increased by 20%
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2007/tables/07s0205.xls

Therefore according to the math we have already easily spent out all the money needed to handle this increase.



So where is the emergency?


In 'Strengths of Their Own', Dr. Ray found the average cost per homeschool student is $546 while the average cost per public school student is $5,325. Yet the homeschool children in this study averaged in 85th percentile while the public school students averaged in the 50th percentile on nationally standardized achievement tests.

Similarly, the 1998 study by Dr. Rudner of 20,760 students, found that eighth grade students whose parents spend $199 or less on their home education score, on the average, in the 80th percentile. Eighth grade students whose parents spend $400 to $599 on their home education also score on the average, in the 80th percentile! Once the parents spend over $600, the students do slightly better, scoring in the 83rd percentile. (Rudner, Home Schooling Works: The Scholastic Achievement and Demographic Characteristics of Home School Students in 1998)

The message is loud and clear. More money does not mean a better education. There is no positive correlation between money spent on education and student performance. Public school advocates could refocus their emphasis if they learned this lesson.







So this is why the Democrats are not spending money on the campaign promises? Or is it because they have pork ship (forget barrel, a barrel could never hold that much pork) spending to do first?





So what other infrastructure do we need?



There has been talk of bridges. And frankly I agree that those are good. But after the panic from the one bridge collapsing they checked ALL bridges and tunnels and those in danger were found to have already been listed as in danger, and funds were put to fix them by the States commonly, feds in a few cases, and they got, or are getting, fixed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now lets review the spending bill


There's $1 billion for Amtrak, the federal railroad that hasn't turned a profit in 40 years; $2 billion for child-care subsidies; $50 million for that great engine of job creation, the National Endowment for the Arts; $400 million for global-warming research and another $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects.


Some $30 billion, or less than 5% of the spending in the bill, is for fixing bridges or other highway projects. There's another $40 billion for broadband and electric grid development, airports and clean water projects that could be argued as worthwhile priorities.


Most of the rest of this project spending will go to such things as renewable energy funding ($8 billion) or mass transit ($6 billion) that have a low or negative return on investment. Most urban transit systems are so badly managed that their fares cover less than half of their costs. However, the people who operate these systems belong to public-employee unions that are campaign contributors to . . . guess which party?

Here's another lu-lu: Congress wants to spend $600 million more for the federal government to buy new cars. Uncle Sam already spends $3 billion a year on its fleet of 600,000 vehicles. Congress also wants to spend $7 billion for modernizing federal buildings and facilities. The Smithsonian is targeted to receive $150 million; we love the Smithsonian, too, but this is a job creator?

Another "stimulus" secret is that some $252 billion is for income-transfer payments -- that is, not investments that arguably help everyone, but cash or benefits to individuals for doing nothing at all. There's $81 billion for Medicaid, $36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits, $20 billion for food stamps, and $83 billion for the earned income credit for people who don't pay income tax. While some of that may be justified to help poorer Americans ride out the recession, they aren't job creators.

As for the promise of accountability, some $54 billion will go to federal programs that the Office of Management and Budget or the Government Accountability Office have already criticized as "ineffective" or unable to pass basic financial audits. These include the Economic Development Administration, the Small Business Administration, the 10 federal job training programs, and many more.

Oh, and don't forget education, which would get $66 billion more. That's more than the entire Education Department spent a mere 10 years ago and is on top of the doubling under President Bush. Some $6 billion of this will subsidize university building projects. If you think the intention here is to help kids learn, the House declares on page 257 that "No recipient . . . shall use such funds to provide financial assistance to students to attend private elementary or secondary schools." Horrors: Some money might go to nonunion teachers.





This is supposed to be a new era of bipartisanship, but this bill was written based on the wish list of every living -- or dead -- Democratic interest group. As Speaker Nancy Pelosi put it, "We won the election. We wrote the bill." So they did. Republicans should let them take all of the credit.

----- Republicans were not allowed to write one thing, or edit anything, or object to inclusion of any part, they were only given the chance to VOTE no...






So when you think on this stuff, think hard.

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Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

I love the idiots who seriously argue that FDR just didn't spend enough to combat the depression.

It's not that complicated. They argue that even paying people to dig ditches and then fill them again is good for the economy. They're too slow to realize this is just welfare. They're arguing welfare stimulates the economy? Give me a break.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

> V.Kemp wrote:

> I love the idiots who seriously argue that FDR just didn't spend enough to combat the depression.

It's not that complicated. They argue that even paying people to dig ditches and then fill them again is good for the economy. They're too slow to realize this is just welfare. They're arguing welfare stimulates the economy? Give me a break.


sounds like someone breaking a window and claiming he's creating wealth for the economy by employing the window maker.

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

The solution to problems with infrastructure is to privatize infrastructure.

Caution Wake Turbulence

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

Maybe you should try the interstates in the south.....

Illinois and Indiana are bad....but Oklahoma just sucks....Ice one day, hot the next...lots of area's like that. It takes a quick toll on the roads.

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

Ugh, Indiana.

hmm

sux0rs.  And drive on the not main roads, those are the ones that can do some damage

TC pwns me

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

thats not bad as ground icing  100-200 cm witch causes earth to rise witch makes roads to crack

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Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

I say we abandon the cities and become nomadic tribes, hunting gazelle with our convoys of four-wheel trucks!

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Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

>The 'state' of our roads is at best exaggerated. I have found few States with severe road problems, most of the bad roads being in Illinois, Oregon, and New York

You've never driven in the bay area of CA have you?

Rehabilitated IC developer

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

I'm with Zarf on this one.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

democrats = JUST started in office lol...so blame Repbublicans for the roads. And yes, putting mroe money into education does work.  For example, more money for university allows the university to add more programs that make teachers better at what tehy do.  Then teachers being better, they school districts would have a better chance of finding good teachers for thier schools.  And a school would be able to have a music program, a science class that allows students to get hands on, good computers and classes for specialized computer jobs which would help students specialize more in waht they want, allowing the learning curve to grow and at the same time better preparing them for post secondary.  More money also = better sports teams for equpiment and gyms and hosting of sports events.  More money = more extra curicular, where students learn how to persue interests in a constructive way.  More money also = better classrooms, and its proven that the enviroment a person learns in is important to the learning curve.  Schools could biuld actual theatres to add to thier school to hold dance/drama events, also allowing them to do video presentations and stop using a spare classroom with a tiny ass stage biult in them.

some schools have this already yes, but tons dont.  bad neighborhoods have bad schools, which is wrong.  Also schools could invest in security to keep kids safe and colombine things wouldnt happen.

So your excuse for bieng cheap with education is moeny doesnt effect anything? 

the rest i didnt read since i have friends over...oh no...my wife is mad lol...gotta go

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Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

american colleges are some of the best in the world; i dont think any of the money would go to them; its more from gradeschool and highschool i would think. and while many of the public schools are completely failing, i dont think the solution to it is give them tons more money to spend on more programs. if they cant teacht hem basic math, what makes you think they'll be able to teach them a programming language for example.

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

Pay teachers more and you'll get better teachers at high schools.  Problem solved.

TC pwns me

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

how does giving more money to the same teachers make them better at teaching? they are already paid crazy amounts.

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

lol?

If you offer more money for a certain job, more intelligent people would go to it.  I, for one, wanted to teach, glanced at the salary and laughed.

Also, teachers are severely underpaid.  Dunno why you think they get paid a lot.

TC pwns me

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

I gotta be honest, if there is one thing that can be fixed by throwing money at it..it's education. It won't ONLY take money but it does take money tongue

A lot of schools are underfunded which is a huge dis-advantage for a student..
Give the school some money, maybe the kid instead of doing crack after school will come in to play soccer?

The money leads to better supplies (huge motivation-take it from someone who was in high school not too long ago), better technology (again motivation-and a helpful resource), more programs, more clubs to join (creates a well-rounded student), and student develop what they're truly good at!

You might be right that we don't have to spend money to motivate people, they should be motivated enough themselves, but the world isn't that simple. It didn't require any of the "goodies" to motivate me but for some people that is what they require, they look at what's being given to them and respond accordingly (if they're going to be treated like shit, they will act like shit), and you might be right we don't need to care, frankly we don't need to do a lot of stuff but we do it anyways because in the end it is just making our future better. It might sound cheesy but children are the future and a HUGE investment that we can't mess up!

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

true, but i think first more money has to go to the training of GOOD teachers, and teaching methods. i agree though, teachers arent nearly getting paid enough, especially if a guy pushing a broom in a mill can make more an hour.

Aquaman: Because how many crimes ACTUALLY occur under the sea...

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

and @ gladiator,

I agree

Aquaman: Because how many crimes ACTUALLY occur under the sea...

19 (edited by avogadro 04-Feb-2009 03:09:14)

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

you dont need to throw money on teachers, private schools give their teachers much less money and they severly outperform public school teachers. also, unions will keep you from getting rid of under performing teachers. public schools are not failing because of their money, they fail because how they are run. you want to throw money on a broken system.

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

"true, but i think first more money has to go to the training of GOOD teachers, and teaching methods."

Called college.

"private schools give their teachers much less money"

I'd really like to know where you get your statistics from hmm

TC pwns me

21 (edited by avogadro 04-Feb-2009 04:16:53)

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

"I'd really like to know where you get your statistics from "

i went to a private school, my teachers told me they would get paid double if they taught at a public school. i knew several teachers left because they were raising a family and wanted the extra money, public schools would give them.

and yes, im sure there are some private schools that pay their teachers insanely large amounts, but the average private school pays their teachers way less then public school teachers.

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

The highest paid teacher in our district was like 60k.  Just checked and pay for private school is between 29k-75k.  So on average, its likely that private is paid more.  I don't have time to look now, but I can check tomorrow how accurate that is

TC pwns me

23 (edited by Justinian I 04-Feb-2009 07:04:21)

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

The US education system pays more money per student than any European country.

Still we lag behind.

Money is not the problem.

The problem is where the money is spent and the red tape. The problem stems from the teacher's unions and our world class gyms, swimming pools, and athletic courts. Having a gym is fine, but having 3 of them, a large one that can seat the basketball audience, and an outdoor football stadium is a waste of money. It's sad when the bulk of our money is spent on administration and sports instead of new text books.

The teacher's unions also depress academic performance. It's very hard to fire a teacher who has been there for a while, so poor teachers are difficult to replace with good ones.

Also, teacher's salary is adequate. The average incoming teacher earns around $30k, which is just fine for a college grad. That's also a middle class income. They do not need to be paid a professional salary.

Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

"The teacher's unions also depress academic performance. It's very hard to fire a teacher who has been there for a while, so poor teachers are difficult to replace with good ones."

Performance based pay. That's all i'll say.

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Re: Highways and Infrastructure?

Merit pay is great, if you can circumvent the power of teachers unions.