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Topic: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

"As 2008 draws to a close, we do well to reflect on the lessons we have learned. A new president has been elected and will be inaugurated in a few short weeks. The outgoing president claims that he must abandon free-market principles in order to save the free market. Somehow, this has translated itself into a multibillion-dollar bailout for politically favored carmakers. Should the current turmoil cause us to abandon hope and forsake the market economy?

"The financial crisis is causing many

Caution Wake Turbulence

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

Those evil democrats caused the housing crisis by imposing sub prime mortgage quotas. As for the other crises, I can only guess that the dems are at fault for that too.

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

*cough* one-dimensional douchebag *cough*

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

*cough* claim with no justification *cough*

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

*couh* no one likes a two-dimensional douchebag *cough*

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

^obviously 5 years of age

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

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7 Reply by Ouro (edited by 420 30-Dec-2008 00:00:31)

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

But really, about the issue at hand here, it's not an issue of "those tree hugging democrats did it" or "those evil child raping republicans did it." i've said it many times before and it still holds true, its greed.  plain and simple, greed knows no political preference or color, it hates red and blue equally and will take money from either.  people are complacent, greedy bastards just get more greedy and nobody does anything about it.  you dont need an assistant professor/adjunct fellow to tell you that, all you need is logic.  but of course there will always be the wool-blinded jackasses that spit things like "Those evil democrats caused the housing crisis by imposing sub prime mortgage quotas" and frolic about happily thinking they're the shit.

jesus, yet again another thread is made that is just as enlightening as the morality thread or the "should this be law" thread. c'mon jackasses, use your noodles here.

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

thats the stupidest thing i've ever read 420. Greed is present in good times and bad, its not the cause of jack shit. the cause of this is the liberals in the US. maybe european liberals are better, but in the US, the liberal attitude is horribly destructive and reckless.

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

i dont think its destructive and reckless... i just believe that they are ignorant and their brain is shrouded with fantasies of everyone being equal and everyone having a house and such.

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10 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 30-Dec-2008 06:30:07)

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

greed had something to do with it, i'll give you that. but saying greed is the cause of the economic crisis is like saying humans is the cause of the economic crisis. the greed of people didnt exponentially increase to the point where the economy collapsed, greed has always been present and didnt cause the problem. the liberals gave PEOPLE, HUMANS, the chance to make shitloads of money at large risk and that caused the crisis.

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

The "crisis" is blown way out of proportion. Obvious blunders (which us uneduated folk were talking about [ie credit, housing crashes] 5 years ago) were overlooked and allowed (even encouraged: "you won't lend them money to buy a house because they probably can't pay it back? discrimination!") to happen.

This put a lot of strain on the system. It was harder to get credit. But the system was still functioning. Strain on the system was to be expected after it was abused so much for so many years. But the system  was still at work.

The media is filled with the same idiots it was when all of this went on for years. They still consult the same idiots who couldn't see it coming when us non-economic-experts were talking about it inevitably happening. We're all living in Amerika! Amerika! Ist wonderbar!

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

^gotta love rammstein smile

avo, i know greed has been around since human beings got shat out by mother nature, but the fact remains that the greed we've seen in recent years is outrageous.  big investment banks and futures traders raping any sector and any person they can, just look at enron.  if the focus had been slow, sustained growth with the good of the country and its people in mind then this problem probably would not have existed.  but alas, the idea was, take as much as you can in the shortest amount of time and screw all else, and that line of thinking never leads to anything good.

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

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13 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 30-Dec-2008 15:19:48)

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

its very easy to blame human nature when your ideals fail in real life; but that doesnt make it a valid excuse. it was liberal's pushes in washington that encouraged and forced banks to give out credit to people that wouldnt be able to pay it back, housing being one of the main places where this happened and that caused the crisis.

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

and it was conservative cronies on wall street who took full advantage of the money raping opportunities that presented themselves.

just blaming liberals or conservatives is not seeing the whole picture. people seem to like to choose teams to root for or hurl vitrol at but in this case, there are no teams.  liberals alone didnt cause it, conservatives alone didnt cause, both sides stood up, checked each other out, and started doing the money orgy dance.

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

gladiator, did you read my last post? "it was liberal's pushes in washington that encouraged and forced banks to give out credit to people that wouldnt be able to pay it back" im talking about credit, i know its a credit problem, stop insisting that i dont.

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

well i see it this way, when liberal screw up badly they just spread the blame around. Kinda like how they spread the wealth around

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

Enron wasn't greed. It was criminal actions; theft to get a few big money while the rest were left with nothing. And that's just the big one we caught. Think about how many got away since then (most of them wouldn't do it without a means to get away!). If Greed was all we had, CEOs' bonuses would be for MAKING MONEY that year, not losing it. I think Greed needs a big comeback.

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

kemp, you know i love you homie but if enron wasnt greed, then the holocaust wasnt antisemetism tongue

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

It was criminal acts, not greed. Greed would have been them MAKING MONEY. LOTS OF MONEY. They didn't.

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20 Reply by Gladiator (edited by Gladiator 31-Dec-2008 07:58:27)

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

avo, your last post doesn't really make sense to me tongue

so let's go at it this way...

..i'm curious, i think(like me) you realize that there is something wrong and that we are in hot water
so now i want to know what you think really happened.. how did we get where we are
how did some of the biggest banks collapse, what do you think really happened(try to start from the begining) because i think you've been falsely led by the media(those bastards tongue) and i think you have a mis-understanding of the core problem, as it seems like you believe the housing crisis is the "Crisis" which i previously thought before I did my own research and shut off my TV tongue

so please try to make me undesrand what you think and why you think the blame should fall on the liberals or the liberal leaders

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

The criminal acts were inspired by greed, but greed wasn't the root of the problem. What they did was already illegal. We already do not allow it. They were just dumb enough to get caught and our oversight wasn't good enough to make it clear they would get caught (which would have stopped the criminal acts altogether).

Greed is a fine motivating factor. Let them make lots of money if their company makes lots of money. This works. It motivates them to run their company so that it makes money. Win-win.

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

maybe a lil offtopic but...

it really is going to happen.. one euro will be worth more then one british pound.
One euro again is worth 1,40$

to me it appears like yesterday when i read in this forums that this "crisis" is showing how weak the euro really is compared to the $ and the pound.

ahh, i really wonder where BW is when you need him...

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

That's cuz those socialists are printing more $ like mad.

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

DAMNIT!!!

where's avo? lol

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Re: Should the Crisis Shake Our Faith in the Market?

@420

If man's "greed" and moral infallibility are such deep-rooted problems in the collective consciousness of men -- particularly men in power -- why then support a centralized hierarchy of power with a monopoly on violence called government? Why make it easier for such power-hungry men to solicit the State to its will (e.g., big business padding the coffers of bureaucrats in return for favors or State-granted monopolies); or even so much as entertain the thought that any of these greed-driven men may assume command of its legislators to wield absolute power over the citizenry?

The free market is the only "system" which can guarantee that power can never be amassed in such quantities as it has been by the State. The free market is a necessarily decentralized process (a process more than it is a system), and through this the "greed" and "profit-seeking" motives of entrepreneurs serve, instead of their own interests, all the interests of the people their endeavors seek to serve. Ludwig von Mises in his magnum opus /Human Action/ wrote, "The market economy is the social system of the division of labor under private ownership of the means of production. Everybody acts on his own behalf; but everybodys actions aim at the satisfaction of other peoples needs as well as at the satisfaction of his own. Everybody in acting serves his fellow citizens."

Indeed, if man is such a fickle, heartless soul as you lay claim to, it is really just one more black mark against the existence of State, and an argument for an absolute free market. The State, after all, is made up of people: the same as you and me: prone to the same corruption you speak against.

Caution Wake Turbulence

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