Topic: You got to be kidding me
Just... seriously, what the hell?
http://www.edmondsun.com/opinion/local_story_067125346.html
http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/03/09/oklahoma-one-step-from-doom/
Lemming of Disappearance and
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Imperial Forum → Politics → You got to be kidding me
Just... seriously, what the hell?
http://www.edmondsun.com/opinion/local_story_067125346.html
http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/03/09/oklahoma-one-step-from-doom/
The part about the science grade is silly, and it is good for students to learn to feed BS to get through required courses with a C.
But the assembly stuff is essential. I find the first editorialist to be off his nut. A while ago, Smokey Robinson was kicked off an anti-drug tour because Smokey Robinson got off heroin by going to church and praying through his withdrawals. He's been clean for years. But his experience is taboo in our public schools. Students have the right to gather together to pray---except when that involves representing themselves in public at school events. Even voluntary opportunities for prayer have been held as "coercive" by judges in courts that open with an invocation. That is most definitely a loss of religious freedom, and the argument about promoting lawsuits is just too bad.
I was talking about the science stuff.
And what you mentioned about that drug addict. I do agree that it's silly he'd get kicked off an anti-tour for that, as it is a perfect example that everything is possible with willpower.
Yeah that is dumb and they're gonna get sued for that, just watch. How long before some cultist says black skin is the mark of Cain
This is the effect of pushing Christians to far. If you wish to have some less of a huge repercussion you atheists must allow some freedoms, and stop the lawsuits from being able to be filed. The pendulum is swinging.
I suggest openly and frankly that you pass a law recognizing, at the federal level, that there is a difference between government backing of a religion, and usage of government property for religious purposes. This would take the steam out of our side of correcting the imbalance, prevent extremism on our side from dominating for many years (as your side has done for to long) and would return parity and sanity to the entire process.
Or a proper division between religion and state, but that's quite the utopia too.
You have science classes and religion classes, simple as that.
What is really needed is a more classical educational structure such that people will understand the logic processes that exist due to the nature of asking "Who are we", "What do we want" and "Where are we going"... Science is merely a means to rationalize and quanitify answers to those questions.
Thus modern science was born from this ancient religious spirit.. as the means to process of understanding our world..
Math, physics, philosophy, morality.. all of it. The desired to understand the answers to "what do we want", do we find these principals in which governments were born and instituted. So, to remove religion from government is in reality as inconceivable to a classically educated man or women.
The question we face now is "Where are we going". In essence, what are the answers to that question in relation to government. To rid governments of the progress and principals that allowed them to arise, again, is inconcievable. Thus likely the reason every single of the 1000's governements that has existed in the world throughout history that did seperate religion and law, is no more, and the few that exist at this time, it's just a matter of time before they too fall..
"Thus modern science was born from this ancient religious spirit.. as the means to process of understanding our world.."
Very correct, in fact till the 15th century, science and christianity went hand in hand, with the start of humanism, the reformation this bond broke. Ever since the age of Enlightment, christianity has become more and more irrational and..
That makes me so angry! Schools are places of truth and knowledge. I myself as a religious person feel that there must always be maintained a strong distinction between schools and religion, and that all children should be taught the utter, provable truth, without exception. Religion and spirituality theory is for the home, church and RE lessons.
Also to append:
I believe that forcing Evolution upon children, and only evolution, to be a incorrect method of schooling.
I would prefer a lesson which says, to whit there is many theories of how man and animals came to be. The three most popular theories, according to how many believe them are: Creationism, Evolution, and Intelligent Design.
Creationism is the belief that God, or a God in the case of religions with more than one deity, created man kind and all of the animal kingdom, as well as all other aspects of life on Earth. Some aspects of this are more generalized, with a Gaea or similar natured being creating life. The 3 major religions Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all believe the same deity created mankind.
Evolution has been more of a recent scientific development, dating back several hundred years, but championed by Charles Darwin into the mainstream spotlight. Evolution holds that all life formed from the same basic building blocks, and slowly grew from this initial life into a diverse series of species, slowly changing how they looked, acted, and such. Humans for instance are supposed to have evolved from an Ape like species. An excellent example of close evolutionary cousins are the common horse, and the donkey. These two species are so closely related that they can interbreed, resulting in mules.
Intelligent Design is commonly thought of as a 'back door' to evolution. However it can take on aspects of it's own belief. Many non-religious persons actually ascribe to intelligent design as thinking an alien species created humans and all life on earth. An excellent example of this is in the books 2001, 2010, and follow on books of the Space Odessy series.
I would go further than a student that can correctly speak about the belief structure of any of the three listed above should be graded against the belief structure of the three above. It is not impossible to separate a specific religion out and just include pertinent facts of religion in general from the strongest few aspects.
Is this so horrible to teach all three and allow people to decide on their own? Or should society push one not of your favor upon you, your friends, and your children?
But I cannot see how answering a science exam with religion based knowledge is acceptable. In the UK, every fourth exam question is an 'explain and back up your view on this topic' in the Religious Studies exam. I feel comfortable in that I can give my views on a topic in one exam, the RE exam, and present scientific truths in another exam, the science exam. I have that freedom to explain my view, but the clear distinction is there. I believe it to be a good system hence.
or just tell them wich one you are telling, and that there are others as well, children will be educated on the differences at home anyways? or in church, or whatev ![]()
and if u say there are others, it s different then just presenting it as the utter truth.
i think it s good for "extreme" christians to know about the other theories, wouldnt you want to know, and have thought about it?
or would ya just be flabbergasted or shout away at the other person "nonono, yr so wrong >.<"
as i think it s good for nonchristians to know smt about some "christian stuff", like why we have certain holidays, what stories paintings and poems are based on, where certain proverbs came from etc . cuz western society is/was heavily based on it, and some background/history never hurts.
I agree. A large knowledge base is needed. But a distinction needs to be made as to what is scientific/mathematical proof, and therefore appropriate to science exams, and what is a religious belief.
"I believe that forcing Evolution upon children, and only evolution, to be a incorrect method of schooling."
There's no other scientific correct theory. I agree that teenagers should know what creationism is, but they have to know it doesn't make any sense either ![]()
Let me see if I understand this correctly:
If I am asked to "Explain the theory of evolution" and I answer with "God made everything" I can NOT fail the exam even though I have clearly NOT answered the question?
In America is there such a thing as a Religious Education class? If there is they why is it so vital that relgion be allowed in the science lab?
@Einstein - The three major religeons are Christianity, Islam and Hinduism
If you are going to teach creationism and intelligent design in !!!!!SCIENCE CLASS!!!!! we should also teach destructionism where god created all the universe and as to make sure he didn't make anything unnecisary he created Chuck Norris to give him/her a second opinion. So god let Chuck kill all the animals he didn't like.chuck being chuck, he started roundhouse kicking every thing until god realised what a mistake he had made and sent Chuck to the future to become walker: Texas ranger to control crime in the mid-west USA.
no tell me that it doesn't sound just as rediculus as other religeos storys you have heard. Evolution is teached at schools because religeon isn't needed anymore to explain lives to people.
Evolution is the most logical of all explanations and has been backed up by molecular biology, where changes in a bacterias DNA structure occur much more rapidly than in the macro world because of the high reproduction rate. Why do you think there are now tuberculoses causing bacteria that are resisting medication? Did an almighty something sudenly give the bacteria a shield or did the bacteria adapt to the drug by changing their genetic structure through evolution to resist a poison that is pumped into their body.
I have no problem with religeous people but it shows how easily a person can be made to believe anything. Einstein I wonder if you even know much about other religeons. Did you choose christianity because like or believe in those teachings the most or were you forced do believe in it by your parents. If I was religeous I'd probably be Budist because I symphatise with It's teachings the most.
einstein your description of creationism is lacking. God creating us and animals doesnt go against any of the 3 theories, yet you use it to describe creationism.
this is an example of how democratic governments fail. it takes alittle bit of common sense to say that in science classes, only scientific answers are correct and that little kids telling each other that they're going to hell isnt something that should take place in school, but freedoms, religious or not that do not infringe on the rights of others should be allowed.
"Is this so horrible to teach all three and allow people to decide on their own? Or should society push one not of your favor upon you, your friends, and your children?"
You're not reading other peoples' posts, politician. In science class you have evolution and in religion class you have creationism. Make separate exams if you like and there's no fuss.
Anyway squeezing religion into science classes only shows how insecure people feel about creationism.
Has anyone ever offered evolution to be lectured in religion classes? No. Academics are clear-headed and they aren't obsessed with Darwin. That's why politicians don't see any point in kissing their asses.
i wouldnt have a problem with the science teacher quickly explaining that Evolution is a theory that is widely accepted by scientists and that there are other theories about the creation of the world some that contradict evolution that this class wont teach you about. but i wouldnt think much more would be appropriate.
Actually I created destructionism as a joke but now that I think of it.... that's what i'm going to believe in.
just be very careful about how you post the taxes...
Some of you think it is acceptable for kids to have to spend a few hours writing on subjects they don't believe because of conscience. Granted; but that same situation, having to stand still while everybody else had a minute of prayer, was intolerable oppression according to our courts and it was so bad the courts couldn't wait for everybody to see how bad it was and vote on it; the courts took the power to vote on it away from us.
As Einstein said there's social pressure to influence government, what makes democracy work is the safety valve that you did all you could short of taking to the hills with a rifle, and you get a do-over in a few years.
Why have religion classes? If someone wants to learn the ways of christianity, go to church... or hinduism - go to a temple (I do, and I'm atheist - they don't mind me at all, and I don't judge them at all, using religion as a base).
I wasted a lot of time at school, having to study maps that various "prophets" and other VIP-christians took, as well as some of their actions, when I could have been doing more maths, music, sport or something else useful and beneficial.
Maybe evolution and creationism could be made optional. That would have many drawbacks, but it would still be better than the law the article's talking about.
hmmm......well explain to me the Origins of life.
Well, you see, there was a big bang, and then the Universe was created. A few rocks here, and few meteorites there, and whamo, all the ingredients are there for the perfect planet.
Now all we need is a perfect temperature zone for life....BINGO....we have the planet Earth.
All of these perfect elements so astronomically (no pun intended) improbable of all coming together.....but, yet it happens.
OR
Its just as easy to say, "God created it all."
Both are just as easy to support. One is based in THEORY, the other in FAITH.
* * *
Funny, only one side mocks the other though.
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