Topic: Andromeda and an IA compromise

Hi everybody,

We're going to be rolling out additional galaxies to provide variety to players.  There's a wide range of things we'd like to try, but to start I want to offer a compromise regarding the IA situation.

I would like to open up Andromeda as our primary non-IA option.

My initial thoughts are that Andro would do well as a "sister" galaxy to Milky Way.  As in, a similar setup aside from IA enforcement.

I'd like to hear your guys thoughts though.  Assuming that IA would *not* be allowed in Andromeda, how do you think the galaxy should be setup otherwise?

Thanks.

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Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

all random, no IA, no NAP, 5x starting resources, 6 weeks

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

MW doesnt want IA. U can just merge the MW and Andro right now tongue

My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness

                          -2 Corinthians 12:9

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

Andro will be for people who don't want IA.  If that means everybody abandons MW then so be it.

MW ain't changing. =P

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Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

How are we going to moderate IAs?

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

WhisperWind wrote:

all random, no IA, no NAP, 5x starting resources, 6 weeks


I like this, except I want to see X10 starting res, 5 day no market/attacks
and a 12 week round.

[13:43] <@RisingDown> never thought i'd say it, but TBO actually did something useful.
[13:43] <@arsy> dont let him see you say that
[13:43] <@RisingDown> oh shit
[13:43] * You were kicked from #room by arsy (kapow!)

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

Undeath wrote:

How are we going to moderate IAs?

The brutally honest answer is: we won't be able to any more than we we ever were, which isn't much.

This has been part of my stance all along, but players still want a reversal of the rule so this is a way to give them what they want even if "enforcement" is practically an illusion.

DustyAladdin had a good post here regarding this:

DustyAladdin wrote:

I'm okay with a few IA when it's a very minor problem. It being widespread and encouraged isn't better. Hell, even tell everyone that the mods won't be investigating IA at all and I still believe that most people won't break the rules.

[...]

Most players are good people and appreciate why the game is fun and try to keep it that way.

We'll be assuming/hoping that people follow the rules and play by the honor system.  If smart cheaters are able to circumvent it, there's not much we can do.

It'll be the same as IC has handled IA for most of its history, but contained within Andro.

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Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

i think its a very good idea! , but most of the active players i normaly play with still want a hardcore gal 1 man fam, which should be 30% of the active player pool tongue and we have now 4 gals with moral smile

Airwing

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

HC is likely next after this one.  Andro is taking priority to address the IA feedback.

Soon though!

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Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

personally the players in MW can just choose to Not IA   simple,


I do not want allies,

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

Yeah if nobody else in mw allies I'm certainly not going to. With only 7 fams it would be much better if there were no allies. Hopefully no naps pop up in that status bar because once they do it probably won't take long for every fam to fall into one of two alliances since you will be forced to either join or fight multiple families at once.

For andro, it has to be unique from existing galaxies or don't bother opening it. I like 1x resources but variety is good so anything there is fine I guess. Currently SB has lots of small families (I don't know if the plan is to keep it that way) and MW has fewer bigger families. The only way I can think of to really set apart andromeda would be to have a different length of round. Maybe make the galaxy even bigger too. Would make pop banking bigger so I think it should have morale that disregards nw (MW current setup) and disabled in game naps (pnaps disabled at the very least).

But man is not made for defeat. A man can be destroyed but not defeated

12 (edited by missin 03-Mar-2017 06:09:10)

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

Disable aid.  Everybody has to SS, but still work with your family to accomplish your goals!

Low starting resources (1x?) to diversify econ strategies (that's my own personal preference, I find high resource starts require less strategy/planning which is boring for me).  No quezian race so people have to make hard decisions on what to put there points in/coordinate with their fam on who gets what.

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

Cool to see mw with old morale. Andro the same would also be good. But.... 4 gals. 60-80 players?
We ran 4 gals with over 1000 players. It worked.

With the player base now it just seems to me we will be making each gal have smaller amounts of players. As people split off to dedicate their time to the play style they prefer.
I think 7 fams sucks. I know we been playing 8 fams or so for years now in SB. But after the fun of 16 fams in SB this round. Even with the Ia bs. It's been fun.

IMO, Andro basically running the same as mw is a waste of time. You won't get the players. If allies get made in mw.its a waste of time for the players. Again imo.

I agree with fagwing. If there is another gal to be made it should be HC. Change it up and keep things different for the players.

Why have multiple gals basically the same when everyone complains about something, give them massively different options so there really is something for everyone.
There will still be whiners. But maybe just a few less that way.

Back to my beer. Peace bitches.

I_like_pie - Today at 8:18 AM
i can't resist a good dumb joke
why do you think i bought IC?

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

Some good feedback.

Yeah Random, I hear ya.  I actually prefer more fams myself, but clearly others disagree.  I think you're exactly correct about variety.

I do think smaller galaxies (as in, total players) are going to be the norm for awhile, regardless of fam count/size ratio.  In the past we've made sure that the galaxies has enough spots to let everybody join but I think this, although well intentioned, is a mistake as it leads to imbalanced fams, emptier gals, etc.

Anyway, the interesting thing here is that the IA pushback was so loud that it seemed like it was the #1 thing that was "ruining the game" and needed changing.  Hence why a galaxy that is otherwise the same seemed like the natural choice for the players who want solace from the IA change.

I think though, what's really happened, is that the people who spoke out so loudly against the IA changes have a valid but over-represented opinion.  It seems now that a larger group of players are coming out to say that what they really want is more basic variety (HC being an obvious example) regardless of IA.

You guys are right: there's no use opening essentially a cloned galaxy, but I think there may be some disagreement about IAs impact on the situation.

I'll set up a poll in a bit to get some numbers.

Thanks everybody.

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Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

I'm sorry pie but tbh less fam is better more players per fam.. their are not enough leaders.. if u watched SB u will see their wasnt that many decent leaders for all those fams hence why some just played bank for other fams.. if u did like 6 fams and 12 player fams or something maybe that might work.. u tired the small fams and more fams its clearly not working.. if u havent noticed as well sb has been dead for like ummm shit week 2 lol its boring as hell in sb.. nobody is really doing anything.. this is by far the worst round in a while..

Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory.

Sun Tzu

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

The great thing about variety is that if people don't like one option, they can choose another.

For example, if you don't like SB's setup with more families but fewer players in each, you can instead play in MW where it's the other way around.

Your opinion that it is "clearly not working" and "by far the worst round in awhile" is directly contradicted by others who prefer this setup and are enjoying it.

That's the point of variety; if you don't like it you don't have to play it.  You have options.

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Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

Too many galaxies. I've already seen people slacking because they are too busy playing or waiting on other galaxies. The tiny player base doesn't need 4 galaxies.

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

That isn't an issue with too many galaxies, that's an issue with allowing players to play in multiple at once.

We could re-introduce the restriction there to limit the # of galaxies a player can join, although we'd surely piss off players who enjoy doing so.

That's really what it comes down to: no matter what we do somebody is going to say it's the wrong thing to do.

That's why the polls are so useful.  If nothing else we can get a consensus on what the "average" player thinks.

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Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

I like pie wrote:

That isn't an issue with too many galaxies, that's an issue with allowing players to play in multiple at once.

We could re-introduce the restriction there to limit the # of galaxies a player can join, although we'd surely piss off players who enjoy doing so.

That's really what it comes down to: no matter what we do somebody is going to say it's the wrong thing to do.

That's why the polls are so useful.  If nothing else we can get a consensus on what the "average" player thinks.

Limiting galaxies = 60 players get divided into even smaller groups.

20 (edited by KingWiLd 03-Mar-2017 22:20:45)

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

Why has the IA thing become permanent in every gal? I feel like the majority of players openly express their dislike of it.. If anything we should have one IA gal and the rest back to normal. So why the stubbornness with it? Do you think if we all work in illegal alliances together we are going to join hands in a circle and sing kumbaya? I think it would have been better to make MW the non IA gal so that everyone who doesn't like the IA option could have had another choice. Also, I think all these gals too soon could be a problem. We need to get more people playing again, then open more. But maybe you're hoping the opening of more gals will attract more new people? Otherwise, well done Pie. Nice to see the old school gals coming back. Bring SD back and get rid of SN and SB. MW, Andro, and SD would be sweet. We need a good hardcore galaxy. smile

The Young Wolf

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

Feedback on IA has been divisive, some have very clearly (and very loudly) stated how much they dislike it.  However, others have stated the opposite.

There isn't a clear majority, but the purpose of the IA change wasn't to do what the majority of the players wanted.  Rather, it was to expose imbalances with the game and to that end is working as planned.  Short term pain for long term gain.

There's a larger explanation in this thread about IA.  It's a lot to read, but I've reached my limit on explaining the reasoning over and over again so I just reference that thread now.

Anyway, IA isn't changing as a default any time soon (for reasons described in the thread above), which is why a separate non-IA galaxy (Andro) is being considered.  For all the players who think it's stupid, they can simply not play in the galaxies where they don't like the rules.

A HC gal is coming back soon, although it isn't clear yet if it will be SD or Orion.  If it is solo, it may in fact replace SN altogether (it isn't a newbie galaxy anymore anyway) but that decision's a little further out.

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Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

all these galaxies everyone just jumping gals once they lose a fight this is gonna get even worse i can forsee this

Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory.

Sun Tzu

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

Time to do some promoting then pie... All these options are awesome. But as it has been for years. Not enough players. If we could double player base most of this would work fine.

Facebook advertising? I have no idea about other forms of game advertising. I know you use reddit. Maybe you can create a link that current players can paste into forums n such around the interwebs , a link to the site containing descriptions of the game, even have player reviews on there, some action packed screenshots tongue

Ideas I'm sure you've heard b4 but anyways smile

I_like_pie - Today at 8:18 AM
i can't resist a good dumb joke
why do you think i bought IC?

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

I like pie wrote:

That isn't an issue with too many galaxies, that's an issue with allowing players to play in multiple at once.

We could re-introduce the restriction there to limit the # of galaxies a player can join, although we'd surely piss off players who enjoy doing so.

That's really what it comes down to: no matter what we do somebody is going to say it's the wrong thing to do.

That's why the polls are so useful.  If nothing else we can get a consensus on what the "average" player thinks.

Regular Alliances.
NO Naps.
DPA.
And fix the damn planet toggle button! cool!

I am currently leading 2 fams, (1 classic MW/ 1 SB), AND playing SN.
I like and want to play multiple galaxies so I "project manage" my time.

S3(\/)P3R FI   .@.  This is WAR:
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Swagga
The name that strikes FEAR in your enemies....."

Re: Andromeda and an IA compromise

****Notice****

Just because IAs are legal, doesn't mean anyone has to take part in them. If so many players dislike it than stop doing it and bash on anyone who does hmm

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC