1 (edited by Little Paul 14-Apr-2014 13:49:57)

Topic: FTA between EU-US

Isn't it a crying shame the two most developed countries in the world don't have a free trade zone already? The economic advantages are huge, and both are still strategic partners and democratic. It would make us both stronger against non-democratic regimes like China or Russia.

I don't care about hormones in meat and any other person who knows something about the subject. We put so much other bad stuff in our animals they light up in the dark but we are afraid of hormones. If that or the GGO's are so bad, just make an exception or have it tested but don't let it hold us back. Its pathetic.  If you want no GGO's you can buy GGO free in the US as well...  I don't understand the fuss.

Tomorrow European minister of trade Karel De Gucht will finally negotiate an FTA in the US. I really hope it gets us somewhere.

As a side note, I'm not talking about weapons or drugs, don't make the debate ridiculous.

edit:
"two most developed countries in the world" replace countries by areas to be 100% correct. (It doesn't matter for this debate at all.) tongue

Re: FTA between EU-US

GGO is fine as long it is marked as GGO. But thats not the case so far as far as i know.
Also that NSA thingy was a little setback. But generally.. yeah its sad this thing is discussed in 2014 and not allready in 1990 or so.
Also.. i know that you know this but the EU is far from being called a "countty":)

Re: FTA between EU-US

Yeah, because NAFTA has been great for the USA so far...

Modestus Experitus

Arby: A very strict mod, reminds me of a fat redneck who drives a truck around all day with a beer in one hand. I hated this guy at the start, however, I played a round in PW with him where he went as an anonymous player. Our fam got smashed up and everyone pretty much left. Arby stayed around and helped out the remaining family. At the end of the round he revealed himself.... My views on him have changed since. Your a good guy.....

Re: FTA between EU-US

I agree with Jesse Jackson when he says we have no free trade, we have managed trade

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: FTA between EU-US

@schniepel:
Ok, power blocks then. To my defense you spelled country wrong. tongue  On a more serious note, labeling it for export is a small step.

@arby:
Nafta includes Mexico, so its hard to compare to a EU-US agreement even if it only included canada. EU alone has more inhabitants as entire NAFTA. Its bnp is far bigger then canadas or mexicos. US is Europe's most important trading partner already despite the distance between them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … nominal%29

Re: FTA between EU-US

NAFTA where Mexican drivers get subsidized fuel but American drivers in Mexico pay full rate. NAFTA where Mexican trucks do not need to follow the same emission laws as Americans.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: FTA between EU-US

Mexicans get paid by Obama to take your job Einstein

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

8 (edited by The Yell 18-Feb-2014 19:30:31)

Re: FTA between EU-US

If an American buys tax-free cigarettes off an Indian reservation, packs them in a boat, ships them to Europe and doesn't pay European import duties on them, or European sales tax, when is the crime committed? And when is the US govt supposed to intervene?

BTW Einstein next time you're headed to Los Angeles can you get me some cigarettes? Say, 400 cartons

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: FTA between EU-US

Sorry but my new employer has an allergy to California. I will not be driving down there under him tongue

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: FTA between EU-US

What's ridiculous about trading weapons and drugs?

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: FTA between EU-US

The extremes, for instance, sell an atom bomb to a firm that wants to protect itself from criminals. I simply did not want to let the debate end up in those ridiculous examples often made by free trade haters. That's all.

Re: FTA between EU-US

The Davy Crockett recoilless spigot gun was developed in the late 1950s for use against Soviet armor and troops if war broke out in Europe. Davy Crockett Sections were assigned to USAREUR (United States Army Europe) armor and mechanized and non-mechanized infantry battalions. During alerts to the Inner German border in the Fulda Gap the Davy Crocketts accompanied their battalions.

...The M-388 round used a version of the W54 warhead, a very small sub-kiloton fission device. The Mk-54 weighed about 51 lb (23 kg), with a yield equivalent to somewhere between 10 or 20 tons of TNT— very close to the minimum practical size and yield for a fission warhead.

The M-388 could be launched from either of two launchers known as the Davy Crockett Weapon System(s): the 4-inch (120 mm) M28, with a range of about 1.25 mi (2 km), or the 6.1-in (155 mm) M29, with a range of 2.5 mi (4 km).

...Both recoilless guns proved to have poor accuracy in testing, so the shell's greatest effect would have been its extreme radiation hazard. The M-388 would produce an almost instantly lethal radiation dosage (in excess of 10,000 rem) within 500 feet (150 m), and a probably fatal dose (around 600 rem) within a quarter mile (400 m).[3]

At 2km the crew would have suffered 2nd degree burns and probable blast damage if not fatal radiation.

I think things like that are why Europe grew up to hold us at arms length

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: FTA between EU-US

Little Paul wrote:

Isn't it a crying shame the two most developed countries in the world don't have a free trade zone already?

The EU isn't a country, that is like calling NAFTA or the African Union or the Comonwealth a country. There are 28 diferent countries in the EU.

Oh and no the European Union should not have a free trade agreement with the USA, the EU should use protectionist policies to protect jobs in its member states. Rather than importing lots of things manufactured somewhere else.

The EU already does this with agricultural products via massive subsidies to European farmers using the Comman Agricultural Policy and it should do the same with manufactured goods.

Re: FTA between EU-US

"Oh and no the European Union should not have a free trade agreement with the USA, the EU should use protectionist policies to protect jobs in its member states. Rather than importing lots of things manufactured somewhere else. "

It hink here in germany a trade agreement would create more jobs then it would destroy. If your countries companies produce products that are so shitty that they need to fear americans THATS the problem they should work on.
Only thing i am a little scared of is that we throw our relative high consumer protection laws over board and adapt lousy american standarts.

15 (edited by Little Paul 14-Apr-2014 13:47:14)

Re: FTA between EU-US

"The EU isn't a country, that is like calling NAFTA or the African Union or the Comonwealth a country. There are 28 diferent countries in the EU."
Only semantics. Whether you like it or not, the EU is an economical and political union, not comparable to NAFTA, which is only a trade agreement. That trade agreement is not as far reaching as eg the free trade zone in EU and there is no central governing institution at all.  The commonwealth is more like an old school reunion gone to far.

So I edit, despite everyone knew what I ment "two most developed areas in the world."

"Oh and no the European Union should not have a free trade agreement with the USA, the EU should use protectionist policies to protect jobs in its member states. Rather than importing lots of things manufactured somewhere else. The EU already does this with agricultural products via massive subsidies to European farmers using the Comman Agricultural Policy and it should do the same with manufactured goods."
We already do that, and it is the reason many third world countries don't develop as well despite a great potential in the primal sector. It also means they can't buy manufactured goods back from us, as they remain poor. You do know you advocate mercantilism in an age where trade is globalized?

The agricultural policy is a major disaster. We pay 5 times to produce products nobody needs. They eat an anormous amount of our tax money and deliver only waste. It is about the worst example you could give.

If you want to debate this future we have to open a new thread, as it would go far off-topic.

Re: FTA between EU-US

@schniepel:
"Only thing i am a little scared of is that we throw our relative high consumer protection laws over board and adapt lousy american standarts."
The joke is they proly feel the same way. They have higher standards in other fields as we do and vice versa. Its hard, if not impossible to say who has the highest obligated "standards". You have EU who tends to over-regulate at some areas, but you have an over the top sue-the-producer-culture in US to compensate for that.

Re: FTA between EU-US

"The joke is they proly feel the same way. They have higher standards in other fields as we do and vice versa. Its hard, if not impossible to say who has the highest obligated "standards". You have EU who tends to over-regulate at some areas, but you have an over the top sue-the-producer-culture in US to compensate for that."

You are probablly right about this:)
I would actually be fine if we could agree on labeling food if it was dipped into chlorine or includes genetically modified stuff, but that seems to be quiet an issue for the producers.
I somehow prefer not eating chicken which is dipped into chlorine over suing the producer after it made me ill.
On the other hand.. i would be kinda happy if i could get some good old fashioned lightbulbs again.

Re: FTA between EU-US

"I somehow prefer not eating chicken which is dipped into chlorine over suing the producer after it made me ill."
lol

I think it is perfectly possible for US producers to change some products for export and the same goes for EU. We do it already for many products (beer for export etc) even if it is unnecessary so I don't know why it can't be arranged for the "sensitive" things. If anything you don't want an artificial producer benefit for one or the other, else a trade agreement will loose much of its initial value. The main thing that should lower is additional taxes on the border in whatever flavor they come with only a few exceptions.

Re: FTA between EU-US

If you cancel your unions we can discuss this.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: FTA between EU-US

Einstein wrote:

If you cancel your unions we can discuss this.


Isn't the fact that they have strong unions the very reason why you'd love a US-EU FTA (i.e., our equivalent goods produced wouldn't have the ridiculous overhead)?

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21 (edited by Little Paul 17-Apr-2014 09:16:24)

Re: FTA between EU-US

"If you cancel your unions we can discuss this."
Believe me, I'm not their greatest fan, but as Zarf put it, it means an economic advantage for US if anything.

But don't you have the same problem, corrupt and populist unions? A majority in Belgium thinks the unions should change their ways, and thank God for that, but hey are still to strong and have a lot of political influence. I think we are united in this battle instead of divided.

Re: FTA between EU-US

Einstein wrote:

If you cancel your unions we can discuss this.

Yet another reason that this is a bad idea. We quite like having decent pay and conditions thanks. big_smile

Re: FTA between EU-US

and get those Czechs to stop claiming they brew Budweiser

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: FTA between EU-US

lol

Re: FTA between EU-US

To be fair they only claim to brew the good version, who would want to claim to be responsible for the piss that the yanks make? big_smile