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Re: Invade Egypt

Why is it so difficult for Western intelligentsia to understand that representative government can not be created by political reconfiguration? And now, the Muslim Brotherhood is seizing power, and Egypt has control of Suez Canal. Obviously, the Muslim Brotherhood will ally with China and Russia, and that will have severe economic consequences for the entire Western world.

Now is the time to invade Egypt and install a friendly dictator. It's obvious that democracy can not exist in that part of the world.

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Re: Invade Egypt

How is it so obvious the Muslim brotherhood will ally with Russia and China?
The second world is traditionally atheist.

NEE NAW NEE NAW

Primo

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3 Reply by Justinian I (edited by Justinian I 29-Nov-2012 10:21:57)

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Re: Invade Egypt

It's how the international political system works. If you don't like the West, side with Russia and China. It's what Iran does.

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Re: Invade Egypt

If Texas secedes,do they get a friendly dictator ,too?

The inmates are running the asylum

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Re: Invade Egypt

[TI] Primo,

There is a nation called Iran. Have you heard of it?

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Re: Invade Egypt

I'm just moving to Canada.  Nobody cares about Canada.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

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Re: Invade Egypt

Right cuz the world will LOVE invading Egypt to install a friendly dictator.

Worrrrrrrrrrrrrrd

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8 Reply by V. Kemp (edited by V. Kemp 29-Nov-2012 16:57:26)

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Re: Invade Egypt

The US needs to GTFO of the region. THEN we'd have a right to bomb them when they blow us up.

Sure they'll be oppressed by dictators and the Russians and Chinese. They don't deserve freedom until their cultures advance enough to fight for it, nor can anyone push it upon them before then.

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Re: Invade Egypt

> Mister Spock wrote:

> The US needs to GTFO of the region. THEN we'd have a right to bomb them when they blow us up.

Sure they'll be oppressed by dictators and the Russians and Chinese. They don't deserve freedom until their cultures advance enough to fight for it, nor can anyone push it upon them before then.


Indeed!

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

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10 Reply by V. Kemp (edited by V. Kemp 29-Nov-2012 17:36:38)

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Re: Invade Egypt

We aid billions to dictators to this day. Their people know we're paying for the batons that beat them for traffic violations. Their people know that the tear gas used against political speech is produced in Pennsylvania (US state).

While I'm not a big American apologist, the fact is that people of many nations DO have very legitimate reasons to despise and hate us. It's 90%+ of the Amerikan sheeple who vote in the Republicrat assholes who hypocritically and systematically fund oppression and murder in many nations of the globe. The stuff our government funds is far, far worse than anything the English forced upon the American colonies which led to revolution.

Hurray we've escaped British oppression! Let's oppress others far, far worse!

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Re: Invade Egypt

Duh Spock...we have to spend years setting dictators up so that we can pull them down and be the hero! Case in point, Saddam!

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

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Re: Invade Egypt

There are many other examples that continue to this day that it's not politically correct to talk about.

I watched Rand Paul go on at length about our support of tyrants in various African countries in the senate. It gets no coverage. John McCain rambled about how he's been to Libya and they just love us, as if that somehow negates the point that we support tyrants who oppress their people. They're a bunch of elitist assholes who don't care about anything but their power and their bank accounts, and we keep electing them even though they murder and steal on a daily basis.

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Re: Invade Egypt

"The US needs to GTFO of the region. THEN we'd have a right to bomb them when they blow us up."

Whatever hippie.  BOMBS AWAY

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Invade Egypt

Iran and Egypt are two entirely different countries. It's like saying the USA is the same as Luxembourg.

NEE NAW NEE NAW

Primo

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Re: Invade Egypt

[TI] Primo,

They're in the same part of the world. The USA and Luxembourg are not. They each have majority populations which hold a very aggressive religion (ie, has a strong role in governance). The USA and Luxembourg don't. Russia and China want more influence in the region Egypt and Iran are in, but not the regions Luxembourg and the USA are in. ...Should I keep going?

It's not really like saying that at all.

It's funny that you mention the second world being "traditionally atheist," as if anything was actually about religion.




The Yell,

Republicrats will never hold a moral authority to go to war until they stop empowering tyrants and oppressing people. While I obviously don't condone terrorism and attacks on civilian targets, it's not like the USA is innocent of crimes against the same human rights we demand for ourselves.

Well, we used to demand them anyway. Now we're just sheep on welfare who vote with declining incomes and increasing costs of living with a falling currency.

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16 Reply by [TI] Primo (edited by [TI] Primo 30-Nov-2012 15:32:47)

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Re: Invade Egypt

Well, in case you had not figured this out yet... The Muslim Brotherhood is rather religious.

I know!

Shocker!

They're in the same part of the world? The distance between Cairo and Teheran is aproximately 2400 KM, which is like 1500 miles. The distance between Havana and Washington D.C. is 1800 KM, or 1100 miles. Are you saying Cuba and the USA are the same thing? I'm not even going to mention Israel.

In addition to that they have completely different religions. Egypt is predominantly Sunnite where as Iran is 98% Shi'ite, two religions that do not live together happily ever after.

NEE NAW NEE NAW

Primo

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Re: Invade Egypt

"Are you saying Cuba and the USA are the same thing?"

Smells that way since 2008


"Republicrats will never hold a moral authority to go to war until they stop empowering tyrants and oppressing people."

Yeah, like we didn't have the moral authority to fight WW2 until we gave up our colonies and ended Jim Crow.  BOMBS AWAY

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Invade Egypt

You laugh, but because of those bombs, many slaves where unemployed for almost several days. Lucky they had free showers or it would have been a pool of filth in those factories.

I wonder if Germany ever asked War reparations from the US, they should.

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19 Reply by V. Kemp (edited by V. Kemp 30-Nov-2012 19:35:29)

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Re: Invade Egypt

[TI] Primo,

Now you're just using new examples with new differences. The same types of religious radicals which rule Iran are present in Egypt in significant numbers. This is not true of the USA and any other nations, so your repeated attempts at parallels are all failures.

The fact that Iran and Egypt have different numbers of different sects of Islam is irrelevant to the Russians and Chinese who seek economic gain from involvement in these nations. Russia and China have technology these nations want but don't have quite the bad reputation of the USA in that part of the world. Or parts, as you would say.

If I was to offer you a wager over whether Muslim Brotherhood dominated governments sought economic development with Russia/China vs the USA, would you take it? "ooo ooo look at me I know they're not identical!" does not equate with them being so different that China and Russia don't want to make money off of them and gain influence over their territories.




The Yell,

Our colonies and Jim Crow didn't help us in WW2. While oppression might be judged less horrible than genocide, that doesn't excuse oppression.

Hitler waged foreign wars. The Muslim brotherhood just oppresses its own people.

Why Egypt? Why's it our business? It's not us or our land. It's not our government. It's not even our part of the world. Why is it worth American lives? Are you willing to risk your life to drop those bombs?

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Re: Invade Egypt

"Our colonies and Jim Crow didn't help us in WW2."
His point was you don't need "the moral high ground" to do something good.

"Hitler waged foreign wars. The Muslim brotherhood just oppresses its own people."
Why would they consider isolation in the long run?

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Re: Invade Egypt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcW_Ygs6hm0

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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22 Reply by Justinian I (edited by Justinian I 30-Nov-2012 19:47:45)

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Re: Invade Egypt

Primo,

Religion does not determine foreign policy. Political/strategic considerations do.

Kemp,

International relations are ugly and nasty. Nations do not survive without being evil and ruthless. If we don't protect our access to resources in those regions, we will lose them.

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Re: Invade Egypt

I like turtles.

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Re: Invade Egypt

I like trains.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

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Re: Invade Egypt

Little Paul,

I merely pointed out that we have work to do at home. How one can justify bombing their mean neighbor while their own house is on fire is beyond me. Their actions have 0 impact on us. Ours do. We should deal with ours first simply as a matter of cost-benefit, regardless of morality.

The "long run" is irrelevant. If Egypt actually threatened the USA or its allies we could obliterate them militarily next year or in the next decade just as surely as we could tomorrow.

I can certainly agree that oppression is evil, but we can't fight it for Egyptians any more than we can for Iranians any more than we could for Afghans or Iraqis. While I could certainly entertain supporting people fighting for freedom, all supposed (I stress this) attempts to force it on people have been colossal failures. And these failures cost lives.

Invading foreign nations just polarizes people against us and gains would-be tyrants power. We're not helping people who want freedom by giving would-be dictators a foreign enemy to rally support against. Have we learned nothing from the history of the past 50 years?




Justinian I,

We can gain all the access we want with money. We've dealt with dictators before, we continue to now, and we will obviously continue to in the future. That doesn't mean we have to finance their murder and oppression. If we offer a better deal, we'll always get what we want.

What are we really getting for all of our support for dictators? Do we get sweet deals on oil below market prices? Because the cost is a significant amount of hatred. And oppression of real people. And real murder. What's the price of your conscience? Because we're paying a lot in money and lives. What do you think we're getting?

It's our elites getting rich off of all of this foreign aggression. It's an excuse for trillions of spending taxed out of us into the pockets of elite industry heads (owners). It's a distraction from the printing of trillions and devaluation of our currency (theft from us). It's a foreign enemy to hold our attention while our own overlords take our freedom.

Again, I ask, because I don't think it's a very complicated question and nobody has even attempted to answer it: Why Egypt? Why's it our business? It's not us or our land. It's not our government. It's not even our part of the world. Why is it worth American lives? Are you willing to risk your life to drop those bombs?

Justinian I mentioned "our access to resources." What access? What resources? Is that the best everyone's got to satisfy this simple question? You're advocating real men murder other real men (and sometimes women and children). You seriously can't do better than vague references to access to resources which you can't even define?

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