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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

A little known fact is that the Government is forcing companies to purchase things to prevent massive fines and penalties. Indeed one such is an attempt (stalled by lawsuit right now) to put a GPS tracking device in all Semi-Trucks (as well as computers and electronic logging).


However there is one product which the Government is forcing an industry to buy or to pay penalties for... and the companies have no choice but to pay the penalties... because the product DOES NOT EXIST.


That product is cellulosic ethanol which has been created in a laboratory but there is exactly 0 gallons of it in production annually. The cost for not including this in a blend is going straight to consumers because the Companies are of course not going to go bankrupt by not doing so.



Fortunately for Democrats they can blame Bush for this one. However Obama did nothing to kill it, and the EPA is spiking it in recent papers. Cellulosic ethanol is supposed to be blended with automotive fuel except literally there is no production. This is a penalty for something that does not exist.



Worse is that it has not been challenged. This means the Government might decide to require us to consume Unicorn Farts and Lepercaun sweat or we will need to pay penalties. When will Democrats start unelecting people who even make trial balloons over this stuff?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

The federal government has no legal authority to do this shit. And it's corrupt and stupid on top of that.

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

The American company Range Fuels announced in July 2007 that it was awarded a construction permit from the state of Georgia to build the first commercial-scale 100-million-US-gallon (380,000 m3)-per-year cellulosic ethanol plant in the United States.[10] Construction began in November, 2007.[11] The Range Fuels plant was built in Soperton, GA, but was shut down in January 2011 without ever having produced any ethanol. It had received a $76 million grant from the US Dept of Energy, plus $6 million from the State of Georgia, plus an $80 million loan guaranteed by the U.S. Biorefinery Assistance Program.[12]





I read up on this process, and I'd take this over any form of ethanol made from corn/soybean any day. We already waste the product required to make this, and any field that grows corn/soybeans for biofuel usage is a field that cannot help feed people or livestock, is a complete waste.

Modestus Experitus

Arby: A very strict mod, reminds me of a fat redneck who drives a truck around all day with a beer in one hand. I hated this guy at the start, however, I played a round in PW with him where he went as an anonymous player. Our fam got smashed up and everyone pretty much left. Arby stayed around and helped out the remaining family. At the end of the round he revealed himself.... My views on him have changed since. Your a good guy.....

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

The company was given massive cash to get up, their product could be bought for near nothing, and the fuel companies are paying in excess of 150 million dollars a year in penalties.

If they could not make a successful business with all that you still think that we should persue it?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

They could not make a success out of it because the structure was never setup to be successful. Same goes for any of the biofuel ventures. Somehow the corn/soybean ethanol has stuck around as a "miracle" even though without gov't grants, they would all be bankrupt.

Modestus Experitus

Arby: A very strict mod, reminds me of a fat redneck who drives a truck around all day with a beer in one hand. I hated this guy at the start, however, I played a round in PW with him where he went as an anonymous player. Our fam got smashed up and everyone pretty much left. Arby stayed around and helped out the remaining family. At the end of the round he revealed himself.... My views on him have changed since. Your a good guy.....

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

Einstein may go against economic reasoning to support the industry. But surely better to spend $200 per barrel equiv on this and know all the money stays inside the American economy than $100 on oil with almost all the money going to other nations?

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

$200 /barrel x 0 barrels produced = $0 into local economy

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

Hell let's spend a trillion dollars per barrel!

/sarcasm

How about we DRILL THE HELL out of EVERYTHING!!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

Only if the drills are powered by unicorn poop!  X(

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

"Einstein may go against economic reasoning to support the industry. But surely better to spend $200 per barrel equiv on this and know all the money stays inside the American economy than $100 on oil with almost all the money going to other nations?"

Nope. Cheaper energy is good for everyone. It's ignorance like this coupled with arrogance like this that led to the 2008 crisis and massively inflated cost of living all over the West--significantly reducing standards of living.

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

Throw all other biofuels out. Only thing corn/soybeans should be used for is human or animal consumption. Stop wasting it on ethanol. Use the existing structure for the new process. Put incentives in place for mass recycling of products to help increase the availability of raw materials for this. In that way, everybody wins. From big business to hippies.

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Arby: A very strict mod, reminds me of a fat redneck who drives a truck around all day with a beer in one hand. I hated this guy at the start, however, I played a round in PW with him where he went as an anonymous player. Our fam got smashed up and everyone pretty much left. Arby stayed around and helped out the remaining family. At the end of the round he revealed himself.... My views on him have changed since. Your a good guy.....

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

Cheaper energy is good for everyone
Not for the energy companies.

The inmates are running the asylum

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

I'll have to disagree. A 10% profit margin is still profit. Yes, it's more money for the company if they charge higher, but at what point does demand plummet? They are seeing that now with gasoline. People are starting to drive less, or more efficiently. Profit toals will drop, but as long as you're making a profit then you're in the clear. It comes down to maximum profit vs sustainability.

Modestus Experitus

Arby: A very strict mod, reminds me of a fat redneck who drives a truck around all day with a beer in one hand. I hated this guy at the start, however, I played a round in PW with him where he went as an anonymous player. Our fam got smashed up and everyone pretty much left. Arby stayed around and helped out the remaining family. At the end of the round he revealed himself.... My views on him have changed since. Your a good guy.....

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

My answer is not un-economic. Though it defies short-term logic. I am suggesting if an alternative to oil can be produced but it costs the equivalent of $200 a barrel to produce. Then the money is like this. If oil is $100 a barrel. Then $100 a barrel is lost from the US economy to buy that barrel from Saudi or wherever. Let's ignore shipping, refinery.

However if you can get $100 worth of energy but pay $200 for it, BUT that all those $200 go to American companies, employees, etc then assuming the US government can get 35% of it back in taxes (directly... again let's ignore that a job boom in one sector creates wealth in other areas), then for its direct $100 in subsidy it recoups $70.

So the US government directly loses $30 per barrel equivalent. However the US economy Gains $ 100, because the $200 all stays in America. In corporate income, in employee salaries, back as taxes. And these companies and their employees all buy homes, shop, go to the barbers, go to bars, buy TVs, get internet and cable TV, go to the movies, to the football, with the knock on effect on more earnings and more taxes raised.

Manufacturing not importing is they key to wealth.

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

what I find tragic is, the electric car fans are insistent that electric cars be powered by a battery that replaces the gas engine

and steam car fans are adamant that steam cars be driven by a steam-powered cam that replaces the gas engine

when it seems to me it'd be a hell of a lot easier to have a steam-unit power an alternator to drive an electric motor that would replace the gas engine, the battery and skip a boiler-piston large enough to turn a cam.

But the only car designers i've ever met were college students from Vancouver and I kind of had to stomp them back to their rooms for being rowdy drunks.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

they should have worked like Stalin and ordered producers shot who  don`t meet the ethanol production quotas.

The inmates are running the asylum

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

Or Mace... since the United States has 2 times the oil of the REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED we could drill a lot, get prices below $60 barrel and have all the money domestic as well.

Lower energy prices would create a real boom whereas higher energy prices would affect everyone negatively.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_Oil_Reserves_by_Region.PNG

Clearly the US doesnt have the reserves lol, FLint so wrong tongue

Oil wil run out slowly, and before it does prices will have gone up enough to inzentivize other sources

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

The US has 2x the oil deposits as the rest of the world? Really? Since when. For the record, Canada isn't part of the US yet. wink

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Arby: A very strict mod, reminds me of a fat redneck who drives a truck around all day with a beer in one hand. I hated this guy at the start, however, I played a round in PW with him where he went as an anonymous player. Our fam got smashed up and everyone pretty much left. Arby stayed around and helped out the remaining family. At the end of the round he revealed himself.... My views on him have changed since. Your a good guy.....

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

They dont Arby, but thanks for reposting my question, now flint can reply according to his code of conduct tongue

LORD HELP OREGON

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

Haha Noir, your post wasn't up when I sent mine in. Damn slow mobile. X(


Either way, Flint is wrong. If US had most oil supply in the world, why are we slaves to OPEC?

Modestus Experitus

Arby: A very strict mod, reminds me of a fat redneck who drives a truck around all day with a beer in one hand. I hated this guy at the start, however, I played a round in PW with him where he went as an anonymous player. Our fam got smashed up and everyone pretty much left. Arby stayed around and helped out the remaining family. At the end of the round he revealed himself.... My views on him have changed since. Your a good guy.....

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

US is no slave to OPEC

The inmates are running the asylum

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/03/us-offshore-oil-reserves/

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

and we have 100% of the world's oil

stop us! haahahha!!!

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Forced to buy a product that does not exist?

Mace, that's just economically ignorant wishful thinking.

Seriously, why do people who know absolutely nothing about things formulate opinions on them purely on belief? The world does not magically work the way you like to pretend it works. Maybe if you got an education before you opened your mouth you wouldn't annoy people by spouting ignorant garbage.

You failed to mention the standard of living hit people take by paying twice as much for oil. You failed to account for its making their gasoline more pricey. And milk. And bread. And clothes. And literally everything else. And you failed to balance this against the "extra" money kept in the US economy.

It's ignorant pretend economics like yours that lead idiots to think communism leads to everyone being super rich! You don't know anything about wealth or economics.




The US has a lot of oil. The US isn't drilling for it because our government has been refusing new permits for years. The US is government is, however, giving tens of millions to foreign oil companies to drill where it refuses to let US oil companies drill! Our government is filled with morons. So is our population, who elects them.

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