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Topic: National ID

I wish to bring back debate on this

First let me make a list of Identifications I have.

1) Drivers Licence with an A class Endorsement
This identification is accepted in all Government Agencies as proof of ID (some to a lesser extent) and all private entities recognize it.

2) Veterans ID
All Federal Agencies recognize it as proof of ID, all private entities recognize it.

3) Social Security Card
Everywhere I go for credit, jobs, Government Agencies, where making sure of who I am is important (Ironically with the most easiest to forge peice of ID).

4) My Birth Certificate
Admittedly not many employers ask for, and not so many agencies need, this identification. Used for highly regulated positions mostly

5) DD Form 214
As a Veteran this form identifies the cause of seperation, and the level of seperation, from the United States Armed Forces
Not to many actually ask for this anymore, but it is considered a form of identification.

6) TWIC
The Transportation Workers Identification Card is a little less known of a Federal Identification.... it is used to identify people pre-cleared for access to ports such as rail road yards, sea ports, air ports and such.

7) Health Card
Now this one has a very limited usage circle... related entirely to my occupation as a Semi Truck Driver

8) DPSST License
My Department of Public Safety Standards and Training card is my license to do security in Oregon.

9) Passport
I am in the process of getting my passport which will be recognized as identification around the world.


So the point I am making is that I have a LOT of identification already. There are many other identification types as well.

A Federal Identification Card could in theory consolidate several of those, be made really hard to copy, and be used to sort out legal Americans from Illegal Aliens.


There are arguments however from both the right and the left against such. How say you?

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: National ID

It seems to me that the majority of these id's are not actually needed except in specialist areas, and I am not sure how having one card will benefit the majority of Americans, will it cost less to administer than having 4 ID's, of which in reality I am gathering only 2 (Drivers License & Social Security Card) would be used on anything resembling a daily basis by the majority of Americans. The other two, Birth Certificate and Passport, you will be unable to condense into a singular ID anyway, except by which the passport is used as your singular ID, which allows anyone to look into a database to see the rest, and then you would need a Birth Certificate to get that. Then you are forcing people to have an expensive ID that they might only be using to rent a movie.

What you really want is a national database which links all the other ID's and have the individuals who require these ID's to have faith in the system so they will accept any singular one (such as the Drivers License or Social Security Card.) Then what ever one people get first is the one they keep and not worry about getting the rest.

That all said, other than having different departments actually communicating, how is any of this going to help 'sort out legal Americans from Illegal Aliens"?

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

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Re: National ID

On a semi-regular basis, I only get ID'ed for credit card transactions and proof of age. If there is a federal ID, I'd imagine I would still only use it for credit card transactions and proof of age.

Why would I need a federal ID when a driver's license already serves these two functions?

A note on social security cards: I don't recall anyone ever asked for the card itself so much for just the #.

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ ☭ Fokker

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Re: National ID

*shrugs*

Just imagine losing your Federal Identification Card, and how much of a pain in the ass it would be to replace it if you didn't have separate pieces of ID. Other than that, I'm not opposed.

Worrrrrrrrrrrrrrd

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Re: National ID

I am in full agreement.

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Re: National ID

Wow, just wow...

Ok, I am going to start out by saying that I am not against the card (I am not an American, but I would support such a card like that in Australia...even though it has been rejected in the past).

My first point I want to raise is the potential of this sort of card in monitoring people. Flint, you have made it clear in other posts you are against "big brother" style monitoring, when such an ID card could make that sort of monitoring easier. You_Fool points out that it opens the door for more efficient inter-departmental communication, and that is where the "big brother" monitoring comes into play. Like I stated before, I am not against this at all.

In China there is a system called hukou, which is pretty much a system built on ID from birth. When you are born, you are registered to that provinces hukou, and you gain the benefits (health care, schooling, etc) from that province. Now, if a person was to get up and move to another province, they are not entitled to those services because they lack hukou in that province. The National ID system is used to monitor and police the people in China (to some benefit I might add) but again leads back to the "big brother" always watching your every move.

National ID card could then take another step, maybe roll in your credit cards into a chip installed in your national ID card. Maybe make the National ID card also the transport card. It could start a slippery slope downhill...

Also, you were in the armed forces but didn't get your passport? Also, have you left the US before?

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: National ID

> Wow, just wow...

Are you wowing that Flint has a lot of cards?

> When you are born, you are registered to that provinces hukou

I think hukou is on a more specific level than provincial, possibly on city/town/village level, hence we often hear of the urban/rural divide.

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ ☭ Fokker

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Re: National ID

> Simon wrote:

> > Wow, just wow...

Are you wowing that Flint has a lot of cards?

That, and the lack of outrage at a National ID card...I am honestly surprised...

> When you are born, you are registered to that provinces hukou

I think hukou is on a more specific level than provincial, possibly on city/town/village level, hence we often hear of the urban/rural divide.

Yeah but if you look at the rural and urban spread in China, as well as the economic distribution you will find that all of the coastal provinces is where all of the business lies and the rural areas are in the more central provinces, away from the economic development. You could be right, so I will ask around about the hukou system, but I am pretty sure that the system is based on province and not just city/town/village level. Many of the people that move to look for work find themselves moving inter-province, not just from a village to the closest city (and as such, I hear public transport around Chinese New Year sucks...I mean overly crowded trains, buses, planes all booked up...I am looking forward to it big_smile)

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: National ID

Ok, I was wrong. It does come down to a town, village, or city services, but my original point still remains.

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: National ID

If a US national ID has a transmitter then we have issues. But if it is not tracked at all *shrug*

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: National ID

> Einstein wrote:

> If a US national ID has a transmitter then we have issues. But if it is not tracked at all *shrug*

As you pointed out in another thread, tracking people would be easy. I mean a National ID card could be used for domestic travels, so people could know where you have been travelling, what services you have applied for, etc. It is essentially rolling all of your information into one place (easy access for monitoring)...that being said, I am still for the card tongue

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: National ID

> That, and the lack of outrage at a National ID card...I am honestly surprised...

Why would people outrage at that?

Brother Simon, Keeper of Ages, Defender of Faith.
~ ☭ Fokker

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Re: National ID

> Simon wrote:

> > That, and the lack of outrage at a National ID card...I am honestly surprised...

Why would people outrage at that?

The whole big brother fear...as per my other comments...I am surprised...but hey, I agree with the ID card...

I give your invention the worst score imaginable. An A minus MINUS!
~Wornstrum~

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Re: National ID

Regional ID's, how quaint. tongue

Je maintiendrai

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Re: National ID

Nice summary Bief!

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

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Re: National ID

I still don't see the need for a different ID as such, when all is needed is a centralised database that picks up all the details of any ID you have and allows you to use any other as a substitute, so you only need to carry one whilst in your home country... That is all a 'national id' would be

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

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Re: National ID

Depends... I can use my ID like a passport in a lot of neighbouring nations.

Je maintiendrai

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