Topic: question for socialists

Not for anyone except those who want socialism please.


Can you define socialism? Actions allowed to maintain it? Major functions of it? Etc.?

I want your plain spoken versions, not a book version please.

I want to see how you feel about it, think about it.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

2 (edited by xeno syndicated 26-Nov-2011 03:15:32)

Re: question for socialists

I am a libertarian, so, unfortunately, I can't help you.

Re: question for socialists

I am against most forms of generalization, so i can't really help you either.

I am sKoE
Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in command.

Re: question for socialists

This is your views... not book generalizations. Your views should be clear cut

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: question for socialists

Here's my view:

The governments, corporations, military - pretty much the establishment in general of this generation and pretty much every generation in the history of humankind = epic fail

Re: question for socialists

If true, then being a socialist is as meaningless, politically, as being an optimist.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

7 (edited by Little Paul 27-Nov-2011 09:34:35)

Re: question for socialists

Can't help you with this one Einstein.

Nobody seems to take up the gauntlet. hmm

Re: question for socialists

> Baratheon wrote:

> Ein,
Asking people to talk broadly about Socialism, and to put forth the question of 'how', is laying the groundwork for ridicule. One person alone cannot, or is not able, to define, layout, and troubleshoot an expansive system that a Socialist society would entail.

It is easy enough to ridicule and deride untried/untested Socialist theories from pseudo, armchair political theorists and social economists, -without- asking them "how they feel" about it.

Try narrowing your focus by using qualifiers and restrictive clauses, Einstein.
Grade: D-



erm i agree with you on this bara. but as to call them untested . man most socialist governments are proven more effective then others

neither man nor machine can withstand the fury of winter

Re: question for socialists

Woo a troll, lets see where this takes us....




A government is the abjucation of power by society to an entity created by society, and composed of people from within that society. The purpose of the entity created is to protect those within the society from external forces and/or hardships. The individual does not matter to the mechanics of government, only that society is maintained.

Socialism is the ideal where by government looks out for the people in broad areas, such as the health of people, the education of people and the ability of people to sustain a basic standard of living. The concept is that the government is only granted power by the will of the people, so government should exist only to provide services to the people of society, no matter which part of society they belong to, as long as they belong to the society.


In socialism healthcare is provided such that all members of society may enjoy a basic level of health and expectation that they will be looked after and made well. An individual may wish  to use alternative health provisions which it deems to be superior, but that is the individuals choice and should not impact on the function of government to proved to society. Government, through the wishes expressed upon it by the people, may provide this healthcare in different ways, be it a  monolithic healthcare provider accessible throughout society, or a medical insurance scheme which all people in society have access. The means do not matter, as long as no member of society are unable to access medical care when required for any reason.

In socialism education is provided to all members of society so that all of society is educated to an ever-increasing level of knowledge. In the case of education, a more educated population creates a better society, so allowing for an increasing level of education is required. This can be provided either through government funded schools & universities, or through funding for members of society to attend their choice of educational facility at a level that is equal to all members of society. Once again an individual may choose to attend a facility that it considers to be superior to that which is provided by government, but that again is the choice of the individual and not a process which government need support not hinder.

In socialism, the welfare of all members of society is important and should be held in the highest regard. This may be provided for in the above to branches of government, or may be provided by the maintenance of law and order throughout society, it even may be achieved by ensuring external hazards are minimised, isolated or eliminated. However the main achievement will be the providing of adequate conditions for any person within society to live to an acceptable standard of living, and to allow for growth above that. This maybe achieved by providing social welfare payments to those unable to find work, the regulation of workplaces to ensure fair and equitable treatment of workers by management, the regulation of a minimum wage to ensure all workers do not live in poverty, regulation to ensure the cost of living does not exceed the means of society to pay their own way and other such interjections to ensure equitable treatment of all members of society.

Socialism should not stifle growth, but ensure that all members of society are able to enjoy the growth of society and that no unique individual misses out. Government is not there to look after itself, not to pander to a subset of society. Equally society should not rely on government for it's growth nor should society act as individuals, but society should act to act as a society and act together for the betterment of all, knowing that in doing so they act as a power greater than the sum of the individual parts.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: question for socialists

To dicuss this matter we should all read: Karl Marx/Friedrich Engels: Das Kapital, Vol 1-3

Re: question for socialists

How about something written by an Analytic philosopher? Continentals all suck.

Re: question for socialists

No comment by Flint? He wanted someone to stand up for socialism, and now I have he runs away like a little girl? Maybe he knows he can't hope to win against me....

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: question for socialists

Here's Noah Smith's take on who wins under various economic systems... shoot, it's at least kind of on-topic.

"here's my attempt at a taxonomy of "who wins" under various economic systems. You may perhaps detect a smidgen of a hint of bias, but pay no heed. ;-)

Hunter-Gatherer Society: No one wins.

Classical Slaveholding Society: Those who choose the right parents win, everyone else loses.

Feudalism: "Winning" means knowing your place, serf! Now be so good as to polish my boots.

Theocracy: "Winning" comes only in the next life. Now send us your money and you will be on God's good side.

Marxism (theoretical): Everyone wins equally! (details to follow...)

Marxism (applied): Everyone loses equally...but if we had just implemented it correctly, everyone would have won equally! (details to follow...)

Laissez-Faire Capitalism: Anyone can win big, if he works 0.001% harder than the people standing next to him!

Ayn Randism: The Ubermenschen would win if those darn Untermenschen just stopped their looting and mooching!

Nazism: The Ubermenschen will win, the Untermenschen will make lovely decorative candles.

Japanism: Everyone wins (as long as he is born with a Y chromosome, does well on his entrance exams, and swears lifetime fealty to a large famous corporation with good connections in the bureaucracy, mafia, and ruling political party)!

Europeanism: We just need to define a better measure of "winning." Such as how many teenage girls are currently partying at my villa. Bunga bunga!

Tea Party Conservatism: Every Real American would win, if those lazy blacks and Mexicans stopped stealing our hard-earned money with All Those Government Programs. Now keep your hands off my Medicare!

Mushy Milquetoast Middle-of-the-Road Mixed-Economy American Liberalism: Everyone can win a reasonable amount, as long as they work hard and play by the rules. And if someone gets lucky or has a great idea they can win even more."

http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/who-wins-taxonomy.html

And we wonder why nobody wants to be a liberal?  It just ain't cool.  Bunga bunga!

Re: question for socialists

I claim win over Flint, his conservative values are no match for my socialist ways

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: question for socialists

your idea that the citizen can always seek a superior private alternative to the basic level provided by government is flawed, as the socialist state seeks to reduce the number of people with "excess" disposable income.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: question for socialists

Socialism should not mean that everyone is the same, and that concept is a failed argument put forward by conservatives as a way to attempt to debunk Socialism. In true socialism an individual should be able to better themselves through hard work, but at the same time society should look after those who through outside forces are unable to look after themselves. This does not mean dragging everyone to the same level no matter what their actual input into society is, but more ensuring that everyone is doing their fair share for society as a whole.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: question for socialists

That does not seem to be the practice of "socialist" states, such as Cuba, Nicaraugua and Venezuela.  It also is not the practice of "social justice" movements here in the USA, which insist that personal choices can render somebody incapable of work, such as substance abuse, but that full benefits are still owing.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: question for socialists

Do those fall into my definition of Socialism?

I do not count them as 'true' socialist causes, at least not the nations listed, the 'social justice movement' I would have no real idea about so cannot comment. A person's choice is just that, their choice. Help should be given, but individuals need to partake in society to benefit from society.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: question for socialists

/me continues to beat Flint

I guess that makes me better than him

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: question for socialists

Socialism to me: A system of government whose interest is the health and overall well being of everybody, regardless of financial background.

Conservatism to me: A system of government whose belief is that this world is "every man for himself"


Ergo I submit a conclusion to be argued by conservatives: Conservatives are, by definition, more selfish and greedy than socialists.

Worrrrrrrrrrrrrrd

Re: question for socialists

Freedom and equality to all workers, comrade.

"Some workers were created MORE equal than others."  ~ Socialist steel worker saying.

"Beware the leader that takes control of your life.  For he pretends to be your master. And gives you those freedom by his own will."  ~ Chinese Proverb.

=^o.o^= When I'm cute I can be cute.  And when I'm mean, I can be very very mean.  I'm a cat.  Expect me to be fickle.

Re: question for socialists

I like how socialism and communism are mixed up in the american brain.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"

Re: question for socialists

Socialism is the stage between capitalism and communism. Marx said so.

Of course, there is the concept of the welfare state/social democracy, but that is something different.

Re: question for socialists

Liberal doesn't mean liberal anymore, so why should socialist mean what Marx said it meant?

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but i am Jesus"
"Nothing is worse than a fully prepared fool"