I was thinking Quantum could get Destroy Units with the option of selecting what unit type to destroy, so it's not random for them.

"Its kinda lame Partaxians have the only one."

...to be fair, the intention was to revamp all races.

Sadly, Adoross left us high and dry after we got thru with Pax and OH.

The rest is history

@Its about time Wardancers get something that will entice the people to play them more often. I think the random theft is a great idea. If you could choose a resource it might be overpowered. You also shouldnt be able to steal more than the Destroy Iron/Cash ops destroy. That could get out of hand. This op (or spell) could finally bring the Wardancer into the 'need one in every family' status like a Partaxian.
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Agreed Random and same % range.  Have it have a chance at both Cash and Resources too so that everyone can have the chance to be hurt by it if you use it on them.

@I think letting the Camaar choose which op he borrows is totally fair. A camaar's magic bonus is still quite crappy. Having an op/spell temporarily doesnt guarantee success even w/o the suggested 5-10% increased failure chance. You still need the units to pull it off. If you didnt let them choose which one to borrow the op would be frustrating as hell. Why would he need Hypnotize or Reduce Food Production? That would piss me off if i kept getting ops/spells i couldnt use.
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I actually don't think that allowing them to choose would be unfair either.

@I like the Revalon op. My only concern is how difficult would that be to program or code into the game? In the past screwing with the market usually ended in a bug riddled disaster. The discount % is gonna be wierd to settle upon. Is 50% discount too much? Obviously something that would need to be debated.
For the most part i can see this operation being very important in a family. A smart family would try to take advantage of this and use the market to suppliment their economy through the Revalons. Question is: what sort of impact would this have on the market as a whole? Meaning.....if a Revalon purchased iron at a (whatever % discount) does the guy selling it still get full price for the sale on his end? Also would this discount apply to whatever he sells too? Giving him more cash from the sale of said resources?
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It may be too much to code but only PS can tell us for sure.  I figured this one would be a good test to see exactly how complex PS can work with.  I think the range should be something like 10-30% maybe and I think it would be neat if the seller actually got less because that would go along with the monopolizing bully side of the Revalons but that would come down to what is possible with coding I think to see whether the seller got full amount or the reduced amount. 

@The Quantam operation is just frickin cool. I would play them more often if i could convert my enemy's units into my own agents. Ouch! Would droids be one of the units selected at random? Perhaps the operation should only affect biological units such as soldiers, agents and wizards. What would the % of units stolen and converted be? I assume it would be have to be quite low....like 1-3% at most.
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I think that 1-3% would be a little low.  Maybe like a 3-7% range or so would work?

Disagree with the revalons one, Cuz the galaxy would just be full of Revalon Bankers Crashing the market for all Other players. and/or other fam members sending their gc to the revalon members in fam to buy ressies off the market and send it straight back again.
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Then you have it not reduce what the seller gains.  And yes you may have them then use their revalons to do the purchasing but you also will have a much more active market and push families for using an outside market where in recent times families have steered away from going outside the family.

On second thought the Revalon op would have to effect the Revalon purchasing/selling only. It would really mess up the galactic economy if the buyer/seller got a reduced price.

I agree with Josh as far as the effect it would have on the galactic market as a whole and how the market is used. This single operation could be just the spark the market needs to make it more active. If i were a resourcer wanting to sell my stuff, id be more inclined to sell knowing that a Revalon somwhere is trying to get a discount. Why? I could try to jack up the prices, knowing he might buy anyways cuz of his discount.

The overall effect would make the market a more active feature of the game.

the only race that could use a boost would be the wardancers, though i doubt it would last long with all the complaints it will generate. i agree with velnka's post above aswell as the revalon discount/interest op is obviously too powerful in anyway. you destroy the idea of the market by making it possible to make a profit buying and selling at the same price making it a must to have this opp. let alone even without reducing the bidders received cash, they would make money off of every transaction. this would make people not want to place stuff on the market without having this opp and also impossible to make a profit because prices would be .01 in difference.

Two, if you have an idea consisting of a new race completely, please make your own thread about that and stay on topic. Thanks.

None of the premades are really all powerful. They all have their flaws and none make it so you HAVE to have them to fill a specific role.  Plenty of reasons to go with customs or other premades to fill the same rule.  The closest would be partaxian just because of their special Octarine Hurricane.   

Camaar's steal spell is not really all that powerful, you'll still need to have the agents/wizzies to break the opponent and to cast it and its a limit to one op at a time that you can use.   Right now there are very few that bother playing camaar compared to custom.   Attackers do not go custom just to get PI, Attackers go custom for multiple ops and especially for the 50% research.

The Quantum conversion could always be reduced to a smaller person, even if you made it a range of like 1-3% or so it first is going to randomly choose what target, then what percentage.  Even at 5% you are then only killing 3k the first hit on 100k total. and give you 3k agents.  When people have 100k of a certain unit, 3k more agents is going to be a fairly minimal amount.   You could also have the conversion be like 50% of the % hit is turned to agents. so then its just 1.5k agents in that example.

I am pretty certain that the market will not end up with a .01 difference because of the Revalons suggestion, infact I suspect you may see bigger gaps which promotes market play which was a great part of the game back in the day when markets were more active and its going to mean more people use the market instead of rely solely on intrafamily production.

@Valenka:
im pretty sure the coding of the game doesnt allow for altered building times for specific races. Im not 100% on this. This is also why we have construction science. Quantam already has 70% science bonus, i dont see it as a neccesary addition. Lets stay on topic and discuss Josh's proposed unique ops/spells. Improving the races actual attributes is a discussion for another thread.

The Camaar's race description said they 'steal other technologys'. Maybe we can apply the same basic concept of Josh's proposed Quantam operation of stealing agents and apply it to fighters, droids and bombers instead. This operation could steal a small % of one of those 3 units at random. This could alleviate the difficulty in coding, cuz Josh's original idea may be a tricky thing to code. My proposal seems to be more about stealing technology as opposed to stealing an operation which is more akin to stealing someone else's tactics.

The arguement that a Quantam stealing agents will start succeeding with ease with every casting is somewhat absurd. The amounts that would be stolen arent large enough to affect the next casting's results significantly. If the units being 'attacked' are restricted to just agents, wizards and soldiers (at random mind you) then i cant see this being overly devastating to an empire. I beleive with the right tweaking of numbers this operation would be balanced while adding a new element of strategy to the game.

We also have to keep in mind a few things about these new operations Josh has proposed...

....They are restricted to just the respective race. This will limit their use significantly. How many Partaxians are in each family since the introduction of Octarine Hurricane? Still just 1 or 2 at most. Youre not gonna see an entire family of Quantams, Camaar or Wardancers soley based on their new unique operation.

....These races also have other spells and operations and we only get 7 at once and 1 back per tick. Lets not forget that. The Revalon is the only one that i can see being used almost constantly....however....with the way Josh has it working currently, that wont be an issue. The longer it lasts, the less it will be abused.

....the difficulty to succeed with the aggressive ones he has proposed should be somewhat hard. We all know that using an operation is not a guaranteed success. In fact, i think the op system is buggy now the way it is. How many times have you failed No Fear or failed to get an Electric Storm off when you know you have more wizards with a 70% bonus to boot?! LOL

I hope that these proposed operations will be looked at seriously by the mod team and Ps. With the right tweaking i can see these being great additions not only to the respective races, but to gameplay and strategy as well.

>Render wrote:
"and your idea is poor, agree standard races need a superpower like paxes have OH, but those you have mentioned arent good/original/briliant enuf"

These are good and original. There is no operation or spell even remotely close to what these do. If you read each race description you would see that they fit the themes perfectly.

"and to keep it balanced, custom races should be able to pick those powers too (at a high price of course)"

Render....do you think before you start typing? The whole idea here is to give the other 4 pre-made races their own unique operation. Right now Partaxians are the only race with a unique operation. I think your missing the entire point and spirit of what Josh has proposed. LOL

Render...I think you must play a different game than the rest of us because there are a lot more people out there playing custom races than there are premades.  The ops should NOT be public.

But why? The issue with customs is not enough race points as the complaint, not that there aren't enough ops.