Topic: US Defeats Itself

THE PRESIDENT:  Good evening.  Nearly 10 years ago, America suffered the worst attack on our shores since Pearl Harbor.  This mass murder was planned by Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda network in Afghanistan, and signaled a new threat to our security

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: US Defeats Itself

Okay...

Question #1:
In your opinion, what would Victory in Afghanistan look like?

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Re: US Defeats Itself

The country in military sectors, and all Taliban shot and bombed out of the countryside, and hunted in the towns, and all their supporters sent to the camps, and all commerce and travel within the country reduced to a level where that is possible, until they submit.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: US Defeats Itself

I'm very skeptical of Afghanistan's future. Growing opium seems to be its most profitable and employable economic possibility.

Re: US Defeats Itself

the yell, im sorry to say i think your outlook is piss poor and misguided sad

Re: US Defeats Itself

I'm actually going to agree with Twoisdeath on this one.

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7 (edited by The Yell 24-Jun-2011 16:02:31)

Re: US Defeats Itself

Sunshine, lollipops and rainbows,
Everything that's wonderful is sure to come your way
When you're in love to stay.


not a strong military and the will to use it, that's what will keep us safe!

What did I say that was factually incorrect?

Oh the whole rape their cowardice and treachery thing.  Yeah I spit on this government and its call for healing.  They have earned discord and strife.  They have it coming, and I intend to see they get it.

"That

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: US Defeats Itself

look on the bright side, you won

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Re: US Defeats Itself

"Freedom and fear are at war. The advance of human freedom, the great achievement of our time and the great hope of every time, now depends on us.

Our nation, this generation, will lift the dark threat of violence from our people and our future. We will rally the world to this cause by our efforts, by our courage. We will not tire, we will not falter and we will not fail."

So much for that shit!

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: US Defeats Itself

Its a war. Noone won. Everyone lost.

The Americans lost a lot of money funding the war (yes guys, that worldwide crisis IS your fault, and i'ts tied directly to that war), leave alone a lot of good guys and girls to roadbombs, suicidebombers, rocketstrikes and whatnot.

The Iraqi and Afghans lost even more ... anyone needs that explained?

Even us 'cowardly' euros lost, coz in the end we paid part of that war due to the artificial difference in value between the euro and the dollar, and the ensuing crisis.

If anyone can point out a clear winner (even if it were some false political ideal like 'democracy' ... but that went out the window for a system of state control over the citizenry, which is quickly starting to resemble what the communists did in russia before the fall of the wall) ... please let me know, i'm still looking.

You can discuss whether it was necessary or not, but even necessary war means everyone loses.

No, pulling out isnt the 'honorable' thing to do (then again, honor was a medieval concept thought up to keep the knights from raping every semi-decent looking farmgirl they ran across unpunished, or sleep with the king's wife ... it barely has any place left in our rotten society built on self-interest). It only serves one purpose : save more american lives which would otherwise be lost for no good reason at all. It's also an admission of making the wrong choices ...

If you have to go 'liberate' a country from a bunch of hardline extremist muslims that you installed and armed yourself during the cold war, because even the Russians wouldnt be able to beat them (and honestly, the communist russians were a LOT better at those things than the US troops will ever be due to no moral restrictions whatsoever), thats obviously a wrong choice after a wrong choice.

If you have to invade a country under false pretenses, just to get their oil, after arming them yourselves during the Iran-Iraq war 'to help them stop the extremist muslims' ... thats a wrong choice after a wrong choice.

It takes a very brave man to admit to those things, and an even braver man to prefer saving lives over saving face. It takes a stupid man to believe bravery is standing firm in the face of impossible odds. And yes, impossible they are, coz you CAN NOT push the red button, and you cant win against guerilla fighters that can ignore all rules of engagement while you have to adhere to them.

But that's just the opinion of a damn euro who has no clue whatsoever, of course tongue

When speaking your mind, it is of utmost importance to keep using it !

Re: US Defeats Itself

". And yes, impossible they are, coz you CAN NOT push the red button, and you cant win against guerilla fighters that can ignore all rules of engagement while you have to adhere to them. "

The hell we cant, that's a choice.  And a modern choice.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: US Defeats Itself

America is drowning in debt. the war is costing $2 billion a week. Afghanistan is country twice the size of Great Britain and incredibly mountainous. the British Empire couldn't conquer it, the Soviet Union couldn't conquer it and neither can NATO. It's a pointless war, thousands of coalition troops have been lost with barely any progress made. All you succeeded in doing was pushing Al Qaeda over the border into Pakistan.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: US Defeats Itself

A move for the better of America and the rest of the world, the war in Afghanistan was going nowhere good for USA, so i dunno wth ur talking about Yell

"Real life's nasty. It's cruel. It doesn't care about heroes and happy endings and the way things should be. In real life, bad things happen. People die. Fights are lost. Evil often wins"  Darren Shan

Re: US Defeats Itself

the Yell is just another right wing american who swears that Vietnam could have been won and that Afghanistan can be won.

IMO it's a pointless war, best to get out. It's a waste of lives.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: US Defeats Itself

lol blaming all europes problems on america, thats so european of you TCO, simply put no, its not all the wars fault for your declining market, have a look at greece and the riots happening in your spanish countries. britain being challenged for thier islands. these all have effects on your economy, and with your euro, everyone gets a bite of the shyte pie.

america on the other hand is fighting with a slowed auto market, hoping japan can recover quickly, and a bit of ups and down from china that is fighting with reforms to thier central banking system and foreign competition.

our goal when we started this was to kill osama, anyone who flys planes into our buildings and then makes a video about it is going to die. we did just that, and while we were over there we took care of some upfinished business with sadam. all well will be gaddafi's fate.

i will however agree that durring war, noone truely wins, we lost brave soldiers, family memebers that we will never get to see again. that to me is always a loss. but as for the stock market, it will come back it always does, humans need to trade goods, we have done it for well over 30,000 years, it won't stop any time soon and with it the stock market will rise.

lastly i would like to say go get em predator drones, machines dont have to sleep

Re: US Defeats Itself

US should drop Europe and ally with China.They have the necessary boots on the ground.

The inmates are running the asylum

Re: US Defeats Itself

we actually did make a long term agreement with china

Re: US Defeats Itself

Right. Europeans are incredibly loud dogmatists. They presume that human rights are an inherent feature of the world. I can agree with the idea of cooperating to treat others in a civilized manner, but those Euros sure go well beyond that. To them, we ought to defend human rights everywhere in the world, and charge evil heads of states with violations... lol.

Those Euros are welcome to tell me where those rights are. And how dare they violate the sovereignty of other states by presuming that all states are bound by some natural law. WTF? I want proof!

Re: US Defeats Itself

China won't ally with the US. China isn't interested in Al Qaeda because Al Qaeda is too busy attacking the West to realise that soon China will overtake the West and become the new bogeyman. While America drowns in debt and retreats from policing the world China will start to exert its influence.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: US Defeats Itself

Actually Hez, China will never replace the US. I explained why in America: A New Dawn. Instead, China's growth is doomed to bust, and the US faces an opportunity to situate itself in a position more supreme than its ever been in. In fact, the rising sun is America, and only Russia is situated to challenge that position.

Re: US Defeats Itself

china is heavily dependant on america already as it is, as we are thier major source of food tongue and other products. they need us. and to put it simply america lives with the motto "do or die" there is no trying involved, we will go to any extent to get what we want and it just so happens that we want to be king of the world. we will make it that way tongue

Re: US Defeats Itself

America is exceptional. America cannot  be beaten because America is America. America is the best, America is never second. .... I THINK NOT.

at some point in the 2020s the Chinese economy will have surpassed that of the USA. America will however retain it's number military position but as the Chinese economy continues to grow the dominance of the US military will erode.

Russia will not challenge America. the Soviet Union is gone. Russia will reassert itself in the world but find itself being a junior partner to China.

Superpowers are built on economy. America has had the strongest economy for the last 80-90 years. That has provided the funds for America to maintain the worlds largest Navy and most advanced army and airforce.

Buddugoliaeth neu Marwolaeth

Re: US Defeats Itself

can you read palms too gypsy? how about the next lotto ticket? alright stay away from 2020 cause you have no friggen clue whats gunna happen by then lol, we have top notch economists working in the white house right now, and thier inability to make effective moves(or to refrain from making bad ones) has proven how well people can predict effects to global economies, what we do know is that china is fighting inflation which comes with any growing economy, for thier economy to be a major leader though, they have to grow but somehow stop if not reverse a natural effect from growth. as with inflation, thier products will no longer be cheap and the major exports they are today. in 2020 china might actually be able to feed thier people, thats something to look forward to. and oh yea, aremica IS #1 baby big_smile

Re: US Defeats Itself

lets check another prediction, oil prices were projected to hit 5.00 a gallon in america, well somewhere in this forum i stated my opinion that prices would not drop a lot, and i have to admit i was wrong so far. for the last 2 moths if not more gas has been dropping about .05 every week if not more, this is pretty rapid in any product, this coupled with a deadlined market, and heavy inflation states that oil has lost quite a bit of worth.

housing market, internet bubbles, needless to say predictions are only that and should be left as opinions, not fact.

Re: US Defeats Itself

EmperorHez,

You really should listen to economists less, and to environmentalists more. China suffers from severe soil erosion, population pressures, and an aging population. Its production possibilities frontier is going to rebound, its resources stressed on supporting an aging population, and its people will suffer from starvation. Meanwhile, the US and Canada could potentially control a large share of the world's food supply.

China's economic projections are based on naive assumptions of unlimited resources. This limits China's growth a lot more than economists are willing to admit.

The US, Canada, and Russia have the world's most fertile soil. The future will belong to the food producers. Although, it's undetermined if Russia will develop its agriculture or not. China's GDP may exceed the US in the 2020s, but its economy will contract long before its PPP exceeds ours.