and if we really want to win Islamic opinion. we should outlaw the burning of the Koran by nut job Floridian pastors...

exactly.

you can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, because it would create a panic and directly endanger lives, same can be argued for burning a Koran. When Islamists tell us outright, "if you do this, we're going to kill your citizens...."

> Justinian I wrote:

> So, we should take out Ghadaffi because:

1. His style of rule violates our western ideals.
2. He has committed terrorism in the past.

Really now? First, 1 is an intellectually deficient reason to invade a country. There are dictators in less relevant countries much more ruthless than Ghadaffi is. And if we were to apply this principle everywhere, we would be bankrupt. The second reason is irrelevant, because Ghadaffi's acts of terrorism were more characteristic of his younger years as dictator. For the past few decades, he has been quiet and even cooperative with the west against terrorism.

The error with everyone's reasoning stems from false beliefs about government and the causes for the problems in the middle east. According to you, "democratic" countries are not run by an elite (LOL?), and the revolts in the middle east represent a wave of the people rising up against tyranny to form a democracy that defends the human rights and freedoms every person is rightly entitled to. Really now. Are you all seriously this naive?

How about this, then, as justification:

We should take out Ghadaffi because:
1: His style of rule violates the wishes of a popular, yet undermanned, representation of his people which have organized against him.
2: He has committed terrorism against Western interests in the past, therefore representing a threat to the West.  This can be further justified by the fact that he barred Western journalists from entering the country.
3: The international community, even including the Arab League, has asked that we help oust this guy, so it's a nice diplomatic overture.
4: The instability in Libya helps to drive oil prices up.

Do those justifications sound utilitarian enough to suit you, Justinian?

Zarf,

I am still not convinced.

1. Who cares if people, even if a majority, disapprove of his rule? It's not our responsibility to deploy our forces to remove unpopular dictators. It would bankrupt us.
2. Barring the entry of western journalists is irrelevant. As for his acts of terrorism in the past, that is a half-truth. The early period of his rule was characterized by an active anti-western policy that included terrorism, but he eventually learned that messing with the west is a bad idea and instead established strong business relationships with them.
3. That is also a half-truth. This case for international agreement provided by both the UN and Arab League is merely an example of minority rule from the moral high ground. Considering the half-ditched efforts by Turkey and its strict "no fly zone" interpretation, and the absentee votes by the world's major powers, I am convinced this appearance of "international agreement" is nothing short of moral coercion.
4. Of course it is. So why are we contributing to it? Let Ghadaffi crush the rebels and restore order. By aiding the rebels, we only add to the problem by emboldening the sexually frustrated, male youth in other mid-eastern states.

so I guess we should make clear that if Democrats hold an Obama fundraiser, we're going to assault it with homemade rockets.

Then it becomes "fighting words" and they can't hold it anymore cause the 1st Amendment doesn't protect that kind of thing.

future of Libya is similar to Iraq
everywhere americans come expect chaos and destruction and abnormalities

When the goverments of the world dadle... Blackwater steps in to liberate the oppressed
When a mad dictator targets his own people... Blackwater stops him DEAD
When you are threatened with genocide or opression and the UN can't make up its mind... Blackwater will be there

all for a modest fee of course

I only regret this plan wasn't mine. No mercy for psychotic dictators.

with the riots in france and spanish countries i wonder if we will see more accounts of this in europe... there is little to justify this, yes he is a dictator but we only had something to say after we feuled the riots.

this seems to be the gameplan for the american banks to keep the wheels turning, that and heavy investments into the newly opening chinese industry playground.