Topic: the EVIL OIL Companies

Is there anyone out there that actually THINKS for themselves anymore ??

Do we all run around like mind numbed robots, listening to Leftist University Professors, the Media Elite, Hollywood Dopes and their new Leader AL Gore ?

Oil companies are evil ?

Are farmers Evil as well ??  Food prices are going up. 
Are Commodities Mining companies Evil ??  Gold, Silver, Copper, Iron, Steel,  Etc. prices are all up.  (Not Aluminum, check out Alcoa big_smile)

Why is there a cry for oil companies to be toppled, their profits raided, and their reserves stolen ??

Are we now to become Venezuela like, and take over the oil companies ? (We as in the US.)  As I have heard on a left-wing radio program ?


PUBLIC Records.  Does anyone know how to read financials?  Look them up.  They are a public Company.

2007............In BILLIONS big_smile
Revenue......404.5
Profits...........40.6

40.6 Billion.  Thats, $ 40,600,000,000

Thats a lot of money....yes ?   So lets chop that up.  Thats the number that they toss around in the media and the politicals,
LETS BEAT UP EXXON-MOBIL !!!!

Wait a minute.

Any Idea how many people have retirement accounts, mutual funds, Pensions, investment accounts, etc. tied to this company ?
ITS A PUBLIC Company people. 
Why attack their PROFITS !!!  it is supposed to profit, thats what a business does.


Here is what you probably do not know.

2007...............In Billions.
Exise Taxes.......70.7
Income Taxes....29.9
Research/Dev......1.5 ............ Thats money spent to research companies.
Administration....14.9   .....  ... Running the companies.  Employees, etc.  Also, Bonuses to those evil Corp execs fall in here.

This is a HUGE boon to the US Economy.

ExxonMobil paid almost $30,000,000,000.00 in taxes
YET, we have leftist Media and Politicals calling them the Evil empire.

Another $ 70,000,000,000.00 in Exise taxes to who knows where.
This does not factor in the impact of employment (HQ in Texas) research etc.  The Trickle down effect must be huge.

For those financially involved in ExxonMobil stock:
1.37 Billion in Dividends to common stock.
The Stock has been a yoyo the past year.
$7+ earnings per share.



So, before we go attacking the EVIL OIL Companies......Lets do our Homework.
Lets be a little more financially aware.

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

While I agree BW, how about just sticking it in the 114 Oil thread?

I'm going to be nicer promise

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

BW

the general american stereo type:

always blame the other person, if you feeling bad take out anger on the other person

heck that's human nature

nothing we can do about it other..than invest in oil comanies-- so the money you gain from their profits pays your tank of gas and more big_smile

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

Are oil companies evil?  No more than any other company.  Should they lower their profit margin and lower the privce of gas?  Of course not.  If BW's numbers are right Exxon-Mobil has a profit margin of 10%.  There are small businesses that have greater profit margins than this.  10% is by any definition an acceptable profit margin and some may even argue it's low (many companies strive for at least 15%).  People get hooked on the value but the percent is more telling.

If prices were what they are now and Exxon was pulling 50% profit I'd be running through the streets, axe in hand, calling for their heads, but it's only 10% of their total Revenue so leave them alone.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

actually Exxon is at the bottom of the oil chain, i think the money's all in people who dig crude oil and refine it and such

that's why you go to your local bank, go to your advisor, and say you wanna invest even $30-50 in energy or resource mutual funds

and watch your money groow big_smile

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

According to BW, as long as an oligopoly is 'publically' traded, it's ok for it to CONTROL the market.  Who's the leftist, BW?  Lol.  YOU ARE.

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

@xeno

Depending on how public the company is, I would buy that argument.  Why?  Because then the business becomes no different than a democratic government, except in the way that the organization wields its power.


Think about it.  The government retains a monopoly on the use of force within the region it declares as its territory (for the most part.  Let's not get into international relations issues).  What separates a legitimate government from an illegitimate government, theoretically, is how much the government respects the people within its sphere of influence.  That's the idea that derived democracy: through increased public participation, the government authority would become accountable to the people within its sphere of influence by distributing the power to them.

Now, bring that to a publicly traded company.  Each share of stock is also a vote in the company's affairs, indirectly (just as buying a product is an approval of a business, buying stock is the same thing) as well as directly in some cases (common stock gives stockholders the right to vote in business affairs).  So if a company is publicly traded, it distributes its power to the public.  As long as at least 51% of common stock is released to the public, the public has the authority to influence the business activities, meaning it works.


NOTE: I'm not standing by this.  I'm proposing a theoretical argument here, because presenting theoretical arguments is fun.  Consider it a hypothesis testing scenario.  smile

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

8 (edited by xeno syndicated 12-May-2008 10:30:49)

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

"As long as at least 51% of common stock is released to the public,"

And which 'public' would that be?

First, let's differentiate between such countries as the US and such countries as Nigeria.  The former is often called a 'developed' country and the latter a 'developing' country.  Let's reconsider these labels for a moment and realize both countries, more accurately, as 'developing', the US being further developed and also more quickly developing, and Nigeria being less developed and less quickly developing.

Let's say the majority of shares of a company (any company) is owned by the 'public'.  Wouldn't you agree that this 'public' would primarily consist of people in the middle to upper class from the more quickly developing / more developed countries?  The 'public' certainly wouldn't include those of the lower-class in Nigeria or Sudan who wouldn't have $100 to spend on food never mind stocks.  So, whose interests do you think these publically traded companies would represent?  The middle-upper class shareholders of the more developed / faster developing countries, of course.

But, there is more to it than that.  The 'more developed / faster developing nations' middle-upper class publically traded corporations' have a vested interest ingrained into the system of maintaining the purchasing power and rate of development of the faster developing / more developed nations, while maintaining a relatively slower pace of  development of the less developed / more slowly developing countries (a social inequality which is reminiscent of wealth inequalities of feudal Europe prior to the French Revolution BTW).

The trend is to maintain as long as possible a labor pool whose members are kept incapable of elevating their standard of living to the equivalent of a developed country.  Who would manufacture the products for the more quickly developing world if the more slowly developing world actually started developing faster?  The companies would have to close up shop, relocate to cheaper labor markets, build more factories, invest more capital, revamp their production lines, etc., etc..

Thus, for a these publically traded corporations to retain it's share price and remain competitive, its employees in the more slowly developing countries (who don't own shares) are kept for as long as possible from being capable of purchasing shares, their salaries being incremented carefully according to inflation (and even below inflation rate). 

It is as if the publically traded  corporations in the more slowly developing nations are on one hand strangling the domestic market by keeping it on a choke-chain, while at the same time dangling piece of meat (the promise of development) in front of it's nose, and in the end tossing the meat to the more quickly developing nations instead.

How hypocritical the 'democracies' of the world.

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

If not for the publicly traded company and the "More Developed/faster developing" country's thirst and need for oil, that "less developed" country would never know that it had black gold under its feet.

Using the CIA fact book,
Nigeria's Economy is dependant on its oil.
80% of GDP is oil revenue.

The Country cant even grow enough food to feed themselves.
Disease is rampant
the population is bulging.

They have been free from UK rule for almost 50 years now.

Turmoil in Nigerian oil flow is always in the news.  Fighting on the piers and strikes.
W/O oil, Nigeria would be about as well off as Chad or the Sudan.

So, is this the fault of the Evil rich ? 
Or is it that Nigerians havnt studied the French Revolution yet?

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

Expanding the class and number of stockholders boosts stock prices beyond the dreams of avarice.  There wasn't much difference between the manner in which stocks were traded in 1900 and 1800.  By 2000 every guy Fred with a $500 credit card could buy into IBM.  IBM likes it, that's why major companies issue MILLIONS of shares.  Nobody forces them to do that.  Google could only offer 10,000 shares but they'd lose massive profits waiting for folks to trade a $33,000 share of Google.

The reason Nigeria remains poorer than the USA is that a guy with a thousand rifles can steal more personal power in Nigeria than he could in the United States.  Now that wasn't always true of the United States, and if you look back, there were parts of this country run by riflemen and not Boards of Directors.  The Boards won through.  In Sudan and Somalia, those riflemen are even more lucrative than any industry you can name, and consequently, there isn't much industry in Sudan or Somalia--it's like bringing presents for the warlords to send anything of value into the country.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

aha so what these people need is a nanny government

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Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

that or more civic-spirit in riflemen

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

Xeno, If the world were communist or Socialist or a Corporate Oligarchy.....

How do people like Gates and Dell make it to their status ?

How do companies like Google, Yahoo, etc make it ?

Why were they not taken over, or swallowed up ?

* * * *

If Im a socialist or trapped in a Communist like shell......... what is it like in Burma, or Somalia, or Venezuela  ??

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

"If the world were communist or Socialist or a Corporate Oligarchy"

But it is communist, socialist, fascist, democratic,  libertarian, draconian, anarchist, a 'Corporate Oligarchy' - you name it.  Look at a world map lately?  Now, the problem is that your god - err global market - doesn't discriminate.  It does business with all of them.  Infestors (excuses the spelling mistake) don't refuse to purchase shares in a company just because it disagrees with the personal philosophies of the x-politi-bureau members gone venture capitalists who run it.  Nope, the market only considers share value.  The market does the same with anyone, as long as it isn't 'illegal'.  But people like you, BW, want even less restrictions on who the market can do business with.  So don't tell me you care about American values, BW, for you have no more moral principles or value systems operating than anyone else on the Street.  You guys will invest in the anti-christ one minute, dump shares and invest in Mohamed the next, dump a miniute later and invest in Stalin, and then dump again and buy Jesus #%^#-ing Christ.  You guys don't care.  Whatever will make you a buck by the end of the day.

You, like everyone else who participates in this new global marketplace with lightning-quick share transactions, is an amoralist.  You don't believe in anything. Because if you did, you would invest your conscience.

But how is this relavent to being "trapped in a Communist like shell"?  Well, it just so happens that the New World Order that is now being invested in by the market is 'Communist' - that is in every corrupt and ironically fascist sense of the word - The market is buying into a system of social and economic control that is taking the freedom out of free market system as we speak. And, laughably, people like you aren't only tooting their horn, but, even worse, it is being arranged with your money!  The Street is actually constructing its own prison and you don't even see it.

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

Ironically, you or I have the Due diligence to invest, FREELY, in any company we wish to.

If there is a stand that a company is not "Socially responsive" or "Doing business with undesirables" you can opt not to invest in said company.

But, isnt this a little over yours or my head ?  Im not some huge conglomerate hedge fund maestro controlling billions....Im just a little guy.

We speak of countries being able to do as they please w/i their borders.  People like Chavez in Venezuela and Achmadingdong in Iran, The little wacko in NoKo and the King of Syria can do as they please w/i their borders, as long as they dont export their vitriol.  Isnt that what people say ??  They can do what they want ?

Yet, the west does try to get together, no matter how inefficient and divided they are in their methods.

Xeno, you are being hypocritical.  You are looking to do business w/the same monster you are attacking.


It really is a philosophical problem you have.  I make no large scale view of life.  I like a free and open system.  I believe that will eventually lead to freedom for those under the despots and Socialist/Communist Govts.  I believe if one is a religious person that they can worship in freedom.  I dont mock Christ or Allah or Buddha.

Im just a simple guy, trying to raise a family, and secure my future.

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

"Ironically, you or I have the Due diligence to invest, FREELY, in any company we wish to."

Sure, but the market fluctuations are manipulated, even controlled.  We are 'free' to invest in, but not in a 'free' market.  We certainly can invest in companies that are tightly controlled by malevolent powers whose effects on the global society are disruptive rather than constructive, and 'free' to profit from the misery these companies perpetuate upon the more slowly developing world.  But why are you associating this 'freedom' you speak of as if it is an American value?  Are you saying that your patriotic 'freedom' upon which the American way of life was established is the freedom to profit from the perpetuation of misery?  Is the American way the 'freedom' to profit from the bondage tyrants impose upon their citizens?  If that's American 'freedom', then, well, no thanks.



Why are you sidetracking the issue, BW.  We are not talking about how the investors are 'free' - we know they are.  We were talking about how the market is not 'free' - as in to what extent it is regulated.

So why, BW, are you trying to confuse the issue?

Re: the EVIL OIL Companies

@ Xeno...

When it was found out that NIKE was using horrid labor factories in the Asian rim, people were outraged, NIKE took a hit, and some changes were made.

K-Mart, years back, was selling a line of clothing from Kathy Lee Gifford.  They were made in sweat shops in S. America, not sure the country.

Blood diamonds and Ivory from Africa.

Market fluctuations are manipulated, even controlled.... hmmm.  Buffet, Bernenke, World bank Pres, Euro-Central bank, Even Open, and a few more, can move the mark sure.  But, they are short-term movements, and they are far and few between.  AchmaDingDong in Iran can move the markets too.  Hell, the hand of God ( a major storm) can move the markets.

As to a company controlled by a Malevolent power.....again, if you wish to.  I know IM not investing in CITGO, or the Russian Oil/gas Co....not sure of the name. 

As to this Patriotic Freedom and American Way of life......Again.  Thats up to you or your stand.  Im a proud American...sure.  I am proud of American History.  Euros like to knock America as a "young" country..but we are a very old Democratic Republic.  We set the model for Europe to break the grasp of the Monarchs.   

Im not trying to confuse the issue.  I agree, there is still WAY to much regulation to be absolutely free.  But, what IS absolutely free ?  We all have Govt. rules/laws to follow......can we ever be "Free."

I think you are making it way bigger than you need to.  Also, you are living the system you so despise.

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.