you have a psychological illness for paying the extra money for "nike" brand shoes.

"(edit: If God was all-powerful (apparently so) and liked people worshoping him (he certainly seems to!) you would think that he would have lightning avoid hitting churches. Or if he wanted a church to be destroyed for some reason, then a puny lightning rod wouldn't make a difference. Perhaps he's just not that all-powerful after all)."

the way i look at it, assuming God is all powerful and all Knowing, the universe is exactly how he wants it to be; there arent some people that piss him off and other people that make him glad he created the world.

and there was never a point i avoided, there might of been some minor points not  worth bothering, i think mainly they were where you would make these big assumptions over and over again, didnt feel like pointing them out every time. if there were some specific ones you though that you want me to address, no problem.

well, if you were open about your true intentions, instead of trying to be deceitful, maybe you would of gotten more from this thread

"I admit that I can't help bring it up again, because it is just crazy to me what you found your beliefs on - nothing. "

well, you now know that theres no evidence of anything in the world. why do you believe everything you believe when its based on nothing?

"So if I have this correct, you worshop a God who apparently Loves you and tells you what set of values and morals to live by, but he can't live by them himself?"

wrong he could live by our morals. i worship a God who's values are different from our own, and inspires us to challenge ourselves to certain moral standards that are best for humanity.

"It's only a personal choice that seperates you from them"

its only a personal choice that seperates anyone from them

"Don't you think that if 20-25% of people in the USA are fundamentalists, then that could potentially be dangerous when they are in command of the largest military in the world?"

i think they're more danagerous to the rest of the population of the US then they are to foreign people.

"Who/what created God?"

God always existed.

"that you are in some kind of matrix and that what you interpret probably isn't reality"

no, im saying we have no evidence that anything we sense actually exists. we have proof of nothing; you base all your beliefs on blind faith in your senses and the senses of other people. heres an example you help you understand alittle more, you see two posts in the distance, one appears to be taller then the other, you look at a different angle and the opposite looks taller; this isnt some matrix designed to misinform you, its a common fault of our sense of vision where closer objects appear larger; im not saying that we cant believe anything because theres a possibility of a matrix, im saying our senses can be faulty; could always be faulty, and theres no way to prove they arent.

"Where do the values associated with religion come from?"

God

"If we pretend that these are not values"

we arent pretending they arent values, we're recognizing a different set of values.

"Perhaps I can learn something. What are those groups in the US that advocate the teaching of creationism in schools"

theres the blanket term, christian fundamentalist, which online i've heard roughly 20-25% of the American population is (much less common in the reast of the world). and are basically anyone who believes in literal interpretation of the bible.

"Saying that the church never taught creationism as what they truely believed"

well, provide some type of source and i'll beleive you, i havent heard anything that has indicated that the catholic church ever taught creationism.

"but if we follow a particular religion now we are told what to believe."

you are not told to believe whatever you like then, to answer your last question.

"how do you know that he knows you exist?"

we dont, although most definitions of God does say he's all powerful and all-knowing, meaning he would know everything, including your existence.

"How do you know that there is a heaven?"

we dont

"How do you know he listens to your prayers"

we dont

"and even gives a stuff"

we dont.

now how do you know the earth orbits the sun? how do you know gravity exists? how do you know your name is what it is? how do you know the sky is blue? you dont, you beleive it because your parents and the rest of society tells you to, and it makes you feel good on the inside. the beleif in a God or religion is no less valid then the beleif in any scientific principles. i thought we already went over this, why do you need to bring it up again? there is no evidence of anything, so dont ask us why we know something, because we dont know anything, no one does.

"First off open up a history book cometime and learn about WHY the Cuban people revolted to begin with. The previous government was pretty bad. Sure they were funded by the Soviets at the time but if there wasn't so much poverty in the country before then there woulnd't have been so many willing participates. History is a 3 sided sword, our side, their side, and the truth. Try to understand all 3 sides of history before comming here and tyring to use the actions of a government 40 years ago as justification to keep up an embargo that existed before many people were even born. It hasn't worked, and most people have accepted that. Those assets are gone, drop it, you wont' be getting them back. You can't contunie living in the past and expect to be taken seriously."

that doesnt contradict what i said. and if they have accepted that it has failed, then why havent they changed their government? you want the US to fund a government that doesnt work? just throw away money?

> Schniepel wrote:

> arent you assuming the values of a God are the same as the values of Humans, isnt that a giant assumption?

well at least the bible is saying that god created humans as his copy.. so you could assume that we honour the same values as our god.

i think its usually translated to his "image" if we were "copies" we would be all powerful gods too that could create universes.

"How about study of biology and human body"

thats flawed, its like knowing someone is telling the truth because they tell you they're telling the truth. all our studies of biology and the human body arent reliable because they're based on the signals sent to our minds that we have no way of authenticating.

"Look back at the questions I asked Phoenix about evolution"

ummm, why dont you repost them directed at me if you want.

i googled, and didnt see anything thats proves that our observations of the sun, earth are accurate.

"Suggesting that the signals sent to our brain are not correct - as if God was some kind of sicko that likes to play with them (is that what you are suggesting?) - is beserk."

well, if its so beserk there must be proof disproving it, where is it? you so blindly believe that the signals sent to our brains are correct - as if some God made them correct.

"neither your 'this' nor 'that' are correct."

if you dont believe its definite and you dont believe its subjective, what do you believe? whats the other option?

"This to me sounds like you are admiting that God only exists in our minds, and is not a 'thing' or 'being' that is actually here there or anywhere except in imaginations."

wrong. what happened was, you said everything only exists in our minds, you said reality is defined by what we sense. so then i said, if everything only exists in our minds, then there is no question whether or not God exists.

"if the world is defined by how our brains interpret the stimulus we receive from our senses, then every person's world is different and God must not exist in a lot of them"

if you define reality by how we interpret the stimulus our brains receive. and you believe there are roughly 6.5billion people. yet you believe God doesnt exist, you are ignoring the 6.5billion minds who have interpreted the stimulus they received as a reality where God does exist. so either you are a moron, dont believe religious people exist, arent atheist, or dont believe the way our minds interpret senses define reality in which case, nothing is proven, not even that the earth orbits the sun.

"You believe in the message and in the ideals, and so you choose to believe in the existence of God? You think that these ideals and morals would be non-existant if God was not there?"

no, i think that the morals and the ideals are worth adhering to, so i adhere to them, which includes believing in a God.

"It has been proven."

what part of there is no evidence anything you sense is real dont you understand?

"Which, like I said in the previous post, is the world in which we live."

no evidence of that.... just what you sense.