976

(63 replies, posted in Politics)

"One of the provinces in India does do intense wheat farming (in that doco I can't remember the name of), but as you mentioned it did lead to nutrients being drawn from the soil, and is now not as productive. Water is now also needed to be pumped into the fields from over-farming."

Intensifying agriculture is possible when done professionally. For instance using crop cycles. Although you will end up with lower productions, you will not have sucked the ground dry of nutrients. (Artificial) fertilization only helps to an extend. Irrigation is only a secundairy problem compared to the consequences of depriving the soil of all of its nutrients (devastating the ground and making it unusable for many future generations)

"The problem isn't really to do with farming, other solutions can be made NOW that would offer better effects than over-farming. I read a book once that spoke about food wastage (would you believe that there is more to wasting food than the starving kids in Africa?). Wasting food has nothing to do with eating what is on your plate, but purchasing habits. Wastage is massive in the world today!!! If we curbed our eating habits, we would see a real change in food availability, but that gets a little bit off topic."

Food wastage will continue to occur as we Westerners do not experience the consequences of our waste. We do not face the problems of unsustainable population growth. Even though we waste more food than the starving kids in Africa would require, do you think people care?


"Space for living is actually not much of a problem in my opinion. Take Japan as an example of sustainable development, or somewhere like Singapore (although they may face problems with reclaimed land). The problem will be space for farming. When you look at a satellite image of the world, is it the cities and roads that you notice first? No, it is usually the farms and large areas cleared (and look all block shaped). Farming already is invasive on the earth, and even though you seem rather cynical about animal rights, they are essential for life on Earth."

Japan has had negative population growth until recently, and even now it's population only grows due to migration. Singapore has a fertility rate of 1.16 children per women (extremely low) (2010). I know I used the words Western world to describe the areas with less population growth and named Asia (as a whole)  as being one of the problem areas, but there are, obviously, many areas within Asia that form exceptions.

"The one-child policy does allow for a 2nd child wink. In rural areas (and to stop parents only having males) they allowed parents to have a 2nd child if their first was a female. Also anyone from an ethnic minority is also able to have 2 children in order to maintain cultural lineage. The Chinese government is also considering extending the 2nd child policy (if the first is female) to urban areas (http://english.people.com.cn/90001/9077

977

(63 replies, posted in Politics)

Zarf, do not forget however that a lot of problems poor, rural Africans face are caused by the high amounts of children they have as well. When working on a family property system where every child inherits a part of the space of their parents, space per child is inversibly proportional to the amount of offspring. Less space per farmer results in less production per farmer resulting in a weak market position resulting in poor farmers. Controlling population growth in such areas may be key to improving their and (especially) the future generation's financial position.

978

(63 replies, posted in Politics)

I agree with your view on the types of responses to the discussion of overpopulation, and I will elaborate them using some examples of possible "solutions".


To the problem of a growing population/(impending) overpopulation there are 2 types of solutions:
Type 1 - Adapt to the new situation, provide for the growing population.
Type 2 - Prevent population growth.


Regarding type 1:
If we are to even attempt to provide for the growing population, we will have to make some drastic changes or we are going to run out of resources. The first resource, endangered by the growth of our population, that comes to mind is food: although intensifying agriculture and perhaps methods such as genetically enhanced crops are possible, these measure are often met with critisizm. The second "resource" that comes to mind is space will need to be able to use our space more efficiently if our population is to continue growing, as space is gonna be a major factor in the possibility to continue growing our population (space to live, space to grow crops, space to produce energy, etc.). I will concentrate on these two.

Firstly, food. It is obvious that in the future, with a continuously growing population, we will have to heighten our food production to be able to feed everyone. One possibility through which our future food problems may be postponed is the intensification of agriculture. However, the general response to intensifying agriculture, in particular the use of domestic animals, is "oh the poor pigs/chickens/cows/etc, animal rights blah blah blah!" when they are packed against each other in "too small" housing. The pork appartments are not something the majority of people would condone after their attention has been raised to the issue. Intensifying the farming of crops may lead to disastrous consequences for the soil when not done properly.
Plus these measures will oftenly mean the doom for small farmers as they can't compete with the big companies/farmer unions.
As our Western population is not growing in number (some countries even having negative population growths), this is not going to affect us directly. However, Asian, African and Middle-/South-American countries are definitely gonna feel the consequences of their growing populations (especially countries like India, where they breed like bunnies). Sadly, these are exactly the countries where it will be difficult to intensify agriculture, because of their numbers of small farmers who do not have the money to afford the necessary equipment to intensify their production.  Companies that are able to intensify, when regulations allow, will ruin small farmers in competition (worse than now as most countries have at least some form of regulation in agriculture, for instance protection of small farmers and prevention of international companies to set up farms to a certain extend, which obviously would have to be discontinued to allow for intensification.) Either intensification in these countries will lead to the disappearance of small farmers (and huge increases in unemployment rates), or they will be a complete failure.
The discussion on genetically enhanced crops is one that has been held many times before, so I will skip this as it generally doesn't end in anything productive. (not that most discussions on these forums do, but I'm just too lazy to state what's been said many times before tongue).

Secondly, the issue of space. Space is bound to run out when more people need housing, more space is required for production of energy (think windmill parks, but traditional electricity-producing (through means of burning fossil fuels) facilities as well). Same goes for the production of food, unless intensified.
The obvious solutions to these problems (condominiums, nuclear power plants or other powerplants that produce a relatively large amount of energy on small amounts of space, and the intensification of agriculture) are generally disliked by the majority of the population.
An alternative way of intensifying food production is by use of vertical farms. However, these vertical farms would be quite expensive and only affordable to the richer of countries, in which, as stated before, overpopulation will not be as drastic.



Regarding Type 2:
Preventing population growth is nearly impossible. Impossible, because in modern democracies people have the right for themselves to choose whether to reproduce and whatnot, nearly because in totalitarian societies or governing systems that provide more control over the population, you can limit personal freedoms and ensure the population will not grow. China's (attempt at a) one child policy is an example of this. However, the thought that these changes will be implemented in other countries is unrealistic, since it requires a strong government with ways of enforcing laws on the people to ensure that people will obey such a law. However, the ways of enforcing laws, such as a strong (government obedient) army or effective propaganda, are often not developed enough in the countries that will be hit the hardest by overpopulation, as their governments tend to be weak and lack power (Africa, India).
Another possibility is to just let people with less access to resources die. However, this "solution" is generally frowned upon.




A key phrase in all of these "solutions" is "people dislike the solutions". Morale arguments form a major blockade against every attempt to combat overpopulation. Why? Because you are taking away some of their rights or rights of animals (some people, strangely, believe animals should have rights. Amazing!), for instance the right to reproduce (when limiting population growth) or to personal space (personal space is limited in condominiums) or those of animals (in the case of pork apartements).
It will either be a case of taking away peoples' rights in order to sustain the population, or having the population correct its own size through natural means. Either way people are going to complain.



My own point on the subject:
For those who haven't noticed yet I stand indifferent to many of the morale arguments people have against intensification of agriculture and other measures to save space. I believe a few adaptions to human rights are necessary to combat overpopulation, not only intensification in agriculture and higher space efficiency in housing, but also "mild" population size control measures such as a one child policy. If these measures are not made, we may face far more serious consequences and so I think they are an acceptable evil.

979

(933 replies, posted in Universal News)

lol who even buys food at those prices....

shame on you.



(unless it was for playing purposes)

980

(81 replies, posted in Community)

whoop whoop big_smile

now bow for me you inferior humans!



but first... get me an umbrella *me looks up to the sky worryingly*

981

(54 replies, posted in Politics)

Worstrum, ignore Justinian, he's not worth it tongue.

xeno, an anthropologist is hardly any good. Most cultures they discover are quickly ruined as the anthropologist forms their first contact with a different, for them intriguing, society. Cultures start to copy parts of our society (especially the use of money) and new generations start moving out of their culture into ours, out of pure curiousity and hopes that our society will provide them with an easier way of life. Countless cultures have been destroyed this way or are disappearing due to the new generation just not caring about the existance of their culture.
And aside from that the medicinal plant you named is more likely to be found in a biological expedition run by botanists and other (medically oriented) biologists, than by an anthropologist with absolutely no clue about biology or medicine.

If you really think practicioners of medicine, whether they be doctors or developers of new drugs, do not deserve their high pay, then i'd like you to look back to the situation before the invention of antibiotics and vaccines. Now, almost all diseases slowly (or rapidly, as in the case of the flu) mutate and adapt to our ways of fighting them: unless a disease is completely whiped out they will eventually become resistant to the drugs as the variations within the population with random mutations leading to resistance will become a larger and larger part of the entire population, to the point where the old drugs are no longer of any use. Aside from that, new diseases come into existance every so many years (think AIDS, Ebola and SARS), which cures will have to be found against (people are for isntance still working on the cure for AIDS). This is why medicine is one of the most innovative industries.
However, I do agree with you that the farmaceutic industry is one of the greediest industries as well, where new inventions are protected by patents which allows companies to ask ridiculous prices, not even proportionate to the amount of risk they take when starting a research.
But aside from the farmaceutic industry, I do not see why you do not appreciate the actual doctors and think they deserve a lower salary. As wornstrum said, med students have to attend uni for 6 years in what may be one of the most intense and time-consuming studies. However, at this time, they aren't allowed to practice medicine whatsoever: it is required for a med student to further specialize himself. Specialization may take anywhere between 4 years and 6 years, depending on the specialization. Furthermore, it's not like doctors do nothing while they are at work, or even when they're not, which I hope you can see.
The reason for why your doctor might've charged you 2000 dollars ( I take it you're from the USA? ) is because in the USA you have a ridiculous judiciary system that allows people to sue doctors for every minor inconvenience and suck them dry. A large part of that sum you paid is probably going to protecting himself in case he makes a mistake at one point, and the problem in medicine is that those mistakes are virtually always unreparable as you're working with a delicate, living organism.



xeno, may i ask you 2 questions:
what did you study?
are you a sympathizer of the Occupy movement?

982

(81 replies, posted in Community)

> My Little Pony Man wrote:

> do we get to vote?

983

(54 replies, posted in Politics)

xeno, not in this country where everyone is obliged to have healthcare insurance and referals are tried to be kept at a minimum (which at times may even lead to negative consequences when a referal would've been necessary... but that's aside the point). I'm sure there'll still be a few of those bad, lazy doctors out there who just do it for the money, but I can say that in my entire cluster, if not my entire year, I have yet to met someone who is in it just for the money. People who are just out for the money will generally study physiotherapy here.

In the Netherlands the people who gather info for the anamnesis have a "specialization" with "generalization" as his subject, called a "huisarts" (housedoctor). About 40% of med students who finish their master choose to do this specialization. However, if that's the way the doctor is treating you, without making any effort to attain a good anamnesis or investigate the body thorougly to scout out other symptoms, then I would definitely file a complaint. Even in the field of housedoctors these people should be an exceptian, and if they aren't there is something seriously wrong with your complaint system, because I know that here in the Netherlands there is legislature that provides patients with the right to complain, which can lead to the sacking of a doctor.

If the bad seeds in medicine form an exception, when those in art & social studies comprise almost the entire studies... what would be the result on the return on investment?



Wornstrum, I can see how in the current economical situation, with a strong, growing China and a (relatively) weakening West, how there would be a call to Western students to learn Chinese. Regarding Zarf: It is an enormous advantage if you are able to speak Chinese, to be able to get close to them. The hierarchy in Chinese economics is a system based on trust and respect, more than the Western system, so getting the Chinese to trust you is key. What easier way to get them to trust you than to show you are willing to put effort into your relationship with them by learning their language? In some cases, NOT learning their language may even be seen as an insult.

984

(54 replies, posted in Politics)

No, I am however saying that the market for translators is sedated and that therefore the return on investment for the large amounts of new students currently studying these subjects is incredibly small.

Plus unless you do a really specialized course you won't learn most economically relevant jargon either.

Then it might be better to follow a course provided by your job that specializes in teaching the appropriate parts of a language. No need to follow a broad study.

985

(54 replies, posted in Politics)

I'll give you that learning Mandarin is harder than any Western language, that is true. But the chance that you as an adult will learn to speak the language perfectly without having learned it while growing up mean the effort you'll have to put into it is out of proportions. As you say yourself it is a difficult subject to learn. However, are you stating that the Chinese government is funding your study (partly)? If so, you are probably part of the lucky few who get (additional?) funds from foreign countries. However, are you still receiving full aid from the Australian government? Are Australian taxpayers still paying for your study even though the Chinese taxpayers are contributing to it as well?

If people are going to choose a subject without any prospects of a job then I believe they should be charged adequately. It is their choice to study the particular subject, they shouldn't use tax payers' money for their own enjoyment when they provide no return. At least you know for sure medicine will have a return: in the netherlands there's always been a shortage of doctors and there always will be, not only in the hospital but in the labs/pharmaceutic industry as well (although I would very much prefer to work in the hospital than for those greedy clowns who claim they're helping humanity...). Same goes for engineers, innovation is a continuous process.


"If the tuition costs bother you, you should look at what is needed for the course...studying a language just needs a lecturer and a room. Doing medical studies requires equipment, same with Engineering. "Arts" students in Australia have to pay less because less is required for them to study (except maybe media studies...painting and such all require the students to pay for the equipment and such)..."

That is true but then again they make me pay for the difference. However, my point is that the money put into me is an investment when the money put into most art/social students is a waste, since they won't find work in their fields they studied anyways. As I've stated before: if they want to be egotistical in their choice of subject, do things solely for their own enjoyment, then let them do that on their own bills.
See how many of them are left once tuition fees become inversibly proportional to return on investment (or government aid directly proportional to return on investment).


"As for the original point of this thread, students not getting jobs, it is noones fault but the student. They should know full well what they are getting into BEFORE they undertake that field of study. It is a lack of foresight by students."

I completely agree with this statement, however the point we draw from it is different.
Tell me if i interpret what you're saying correctly, but do you mean: "Yes the students should have seen beforehand that they wouldn't get a job in their field of study, however they enjoy this particular field, so it isn't a waste of other peoples' money"?
My point is: "If they see that they're not gonna get a job in their field of study beforehand, and are solely doing the study out of their own enjoyment, let them pay for it themselves, so that the aid may go to students who will actually make use of their study. If they do not see it beforehand, then the higher tuition fees/less government aid should act to deter people from choosing this study, before they start complaining they couldn't get a job in their field of study".

986

(23 replies, posted in General)

still the youngest on here! woot go 12 year olds!

987

(54 replies, posted in Politics)

" it is not always about getting a decent job, I for one didn't do my degree for a kickass job, but a kickass lifestyle...I like travelling, and knowing a second language is very handy."

see? no return on investment = complete waste of student aid. If you're not actually gonna use your study, then you may as well pay for it yourself: you do not deserve any student aid in my opinion, or at the very least just less.

Plus, what is your study gonna do for you (I take it is a study in Mandarin language & literature?) that a simple intermediate Mandarin course that you could've done while having a real job at the same time.

Although I do see the usefulness of your study at this moment in time, since Mandarin translators may be useful. However there is only a limited amount you will need of them and this amount will probably run out fast. There is only a momentary need for this profession, once it is fulfilled the next generation of students will be out of work.



Sorry if my point on this subject is very extreme (which it is), but here I am, a med student, getting the same amount of student aid (if not less) than the guy/girl who spends his day making ugly ass paintings, or the one figuring out the evolution of the word ǵʰelH-ro, or the one who is trying to calculate how to invest your free time most efficiently without knowing how to operate his calculator, who are gonna end up being office workers for a phone company, cafeteria employees or truck drivers (if not worse), or the obvious teacher in their own subject to ensure the survival of another useless topic!
Even though my tuition fees are 3 times theirs and my study is atleast 10x harder/more intense/going to have an actual return on investment...

And now they are cutting our aid collectively because "there isn't enough money". Why is my aid getting cut by the same amount as theirs?

988

(933 replies, posted in Universal News)

That's different than when someone's been funded all round and then decides to go SS, flashy tongue

989

(23 replies, posted in General)

When you were born, you were the:
5,517,941,633rd
person alive on Earth
80,716,296,775th
person to have lived since history began

both of you are old!

990

(933 replies, posted in Universal News)

if he's a banker who isn't sending aid, that makes him either inactive or uncooperative in my book.


both are good reasons to kill him off.

991

(13 replies, posted in Questions)

if you're using mIRC, just type "/join #mod" then press enter and you'll join the #mod channel

992

(54 replies, posted in Politics)

Generally said: art & social studies are a waste of college funds.

Why don't students get jobs? because they study the wrong things.



/me is mad because they're lowering my student aid and making aid during masters a loan rather than grants because of these [darn] wastes of money.

993

(56 replies, posted in Politics)

"Civil Unions exist in most, if not all the more progressive nations... but not gay marriage. (At least as far as I can research Dutch ftl!)"


Here it is in fact called a Civil Marriage, but only because it is state run and not church run. A lot of "normal" couples here, who do not feel they are religious or whatnot, enter Civil Marriage as well. It is not the same as a Civil Union.

The law for "Openstelling huwelijk" of 21 december 2000 states that "Een huwelijk kan worden aangegaan door twee personen van verschillend of van gelijk geslacht." (A marriage can be entered by 2 people of different or the same gender). Gay married couples enjoy the same rights as regular married couples.


Except for... the marriage might not be considered as legal in other countries
and more importantly: Both individuals aren't directly the legal parent when a child is born during the relationship. In a way this makes sense: since they are the same sex, they obviously shouldn't be able to produce any offspring together. The child can then be adopted to become their legal parent, however, only males can do this. A woman cannot become the legal mother of another woman's child (for reasons unknown to me)


So as you can see, we do have legal marriage here in the netherlands. It just isn't marriage run by the church, but by the state, which is normal here. However, there are some off points that still differ gay marriage from regular marriage.


But hey, what's in a name. Just naming a "civil union" between gays a "Gay Marriage" would probably cause 90% of the gays to be content with the change. I don't get why the more conservative countries do allow a civil union with almost all the same rights but refuse to call it a marriage.

994

(872 replies, posted in Universal News)

you can easily calc by substracting planets (800 nw each) and you'll find we still have high nw tongue

995

(19 replies, posted in Strategy)

oh that war was lost by bad timing, a pussy resourcer and a BIG tactical mistake tongue not because we didn't have enough stuff!

996

(19 replies, posted in Strategy)

i think the last few rounds have definitely proved that pop in pw is worth it.


Aside from that, starting pop or just switching early has proven to pay off.


in pw:

Few rounds ago, IC Snakes: Noir was top banker till the fam collapsed (I think you did pop start?)
Last round, Carebears: h4e was top banker all round, switched early.

but yeah as mentioned before, you need your fam to dedicate to your growth entirely.

997

(872 replies, posted in Universal News)

1    {5515} (5515) [10,6]    58    105306    5822


first to 100k? big_smile

998

(7 replies, posted in Bugs)

have the same.

999

(872 replies, posted in Universal News)

did the mean priest rob you of your virginity, mizzle?

1,000

(59 replies, posted in Politics)

"Who's going to pay to build the roads and rail-lines to those inaccessible areas?  Who is going to construct the power-plants necessary to fuel industry in remote areas?  Corporations?  Haha!"

China is investing heavily into infrastructure in South America and other developing regions.


Now guess who is gonna  mine, cut, fish and/or gather all the resources in those areas?