what a bastard

who lives in a capitalist state?

ah, black individuals... thats what he must of been referring to when he said there was trash everywhere... damn racist...

ah, wfs, is so good at  playing the part of a jealous european, thats pissed because his outdated system, ideals, culture, country, and continent; that were once the leaders of the world are sinking into obscurity with the rapid growth of Asia, Africa, and the Americas...

let me guess WFS, you're pro eu too, arent you? because what jealous european would care about losing a significant amount of their freedoms as long as in the process the eu becomes big enough to avoid obscurity for a couple more years...

lol, you think you know Detroit is bad, but you admit you've never been to... typical Flint, full of bullshit..

1 billion... not a million.... and since when has minor trade between the US and another country been politics forum worthy?

> Wild Flower Soul wrote:

> You're assuming that "killing" an embryo is worse than modifying it, and that I'd therefore tolerate it. But that's a whole different matter.

no, they're assuming that you dont recognize the embryo as a living thing. you have something against modifying non-living things to benefit human beings?

the widespread support you showed to massive genocide was the first comparison to nazi's not my actual typing the specific word...

my argument was not based on you choosing one qualification and tossing the rest away so jews or chinese fitting your criteria isnt relevant...  i also didnt claim you thought Jew or Chinese to not be human, so whether jews or chinese fit your criteria isnt relevant on a whole new level.  this is not a question of whether you point of view is the same as nazi's or the japanese in wwii... im discreting your argument the same way i did in a previous pad, by showing what other ridiculous conclusions can be achieved by using your logic...

also, way back when i was in highschool, they have grown human organs... so 5 years ago. so no, its not impossible, dont claim to know things you dont know...

chris bald eagle point still stands... because he wouldnt be posecuted because he wasnt  the parent of the bird, it would be because he killed a bald eagle...

> Wild Flower Soul wrote:

> Congratulations! Obama will be venerated for this by coming generations.

"A fetus is a human being. It has a human genotype that is developing according to those instructions. Any other definition of human is going to be arbitrary."

Carrying the DNA of a homo sapiens doesn't qualify for being a human being. A wart has human DNA, for that matter.. An organism becomes a human being when people want it to be. Some people see it as a human being as soon as they find out they might be pregnant, while others only consider it to be human when it's visible on a echography. In the late 18th century, one wasn't even considered to be a real person (although a human being) till the age of 12!
I don't think it's up to the state to limit people in abortion, as it's a personal thing. The state, however has to distinguish abortion from murder, but that is a whole different discussion.

"I also do not see a problem with universal health care. Some European countries have very efficient systems, and the complaints about long lines in the US etc are pure propaganda. However, while the US is in need of health care reform, this bill is just not satisfactory for me. It still satisfies the greedy insurance and pharmaceutical companies who deserve to be broken up."

True that, but his governmental policy, that was supposed to bring the prices of a private insurance down was shot down. It's a step in the right direction though.
In my opinion, I don't even understand why health care is in the hands of private - money making - compagnies, as they're not in it for the sake of mankind. A non profit organisation or the government (I know americans dread it) would make a far logical choice. Isn't the latter not there to serve its people the best it can?

a wart with human dna is a human wart... a fetus with human dna is a human fetus...

so the question then becomes are fetus's living beings...

if i have a a sample of pond water and look at it through a microscope and see dozens or hundreds of tiny micro-organisms... you're basically claiming, that scientists cant call them individual living beings... they cant objectively say that  whether each microoganism is a living being or if the entire selecting is a living being or if the entire sample is only part of a single living being... and i call bs...

we know how much of life works... we know how human beings generally work. we know for a fact that given a suitable enviroment and nourishment, an embryo will become an adult human. we know an egg or a sperm by itself with the propper enviroment and nutrients wont become a human, we know they are a fraction of what it genetically takes to become a human being, and  we know the embryo is its own separate being...

finally, even though some people dont consider human embryos as human beings... doesnt justify killing them.  if we cant objectively say when a human being is a human being; why would we be justified to kill a group that might be human beings? If theres a group of individuals that considered another group of individuals as not qualifying as a group of human beings... would you support the genocide of the race of individuals that a group of individuals dont consider human beings?

if a large part of the culture doesnt approve of a much smaller culture... for group cohesion, you're gonna have to pick one or the other, because the gay culture is smaller, its the reasonable one not to allow.

religious leaders werent like "hmmm, we need to make religion a little harder to follow" so all religious leaders came together and decided that abortion would be a sin. and thats why religious people think abortion is a sin.  do you honestly think that?

what happends is people ask the religious leader if its ok to have an abortion, and the religious person says "hmmm, what do we know of abortion?" he then looks at what science knows of it and base their decision off of science...

"Most, if not all opinions about wether a foetus is a living being or not is inspired on religion."

no... not at all... a fetus fits every scientific attempt to create a criteria for life... and just about every religious opinion about whether the fetus is living or not is based off of science...