What about ops that destroy cash and iron.. How would we op the bank?

activity is a part of the game - this idea basically removes the need for activity unless you're the one sending attack fleets. Bankers could just log on once per day to build for 5 minutes. Rewards / gains from activity shouldn't be removed imo.

Fact: the fam bank system fails because

1. poor activity by bankers and fam bank holder
2. (and I wasn't going to bring this up, but now I will) there's misuse of funds by those few who win a fam's popularity contest and end up holding fam bank.

It disillusions new players who quickly assume that IC is just one big popularity contest.

Something has to be done about IC's financial system.

> The Fuzz wrote:

> activity is a part of the game - this idea basically removes the need for activity unless you're the one sending attack fleets. Bankers could just log on once per day to build for 5 minutes. Rewards / gains from activity shouldn't be removed imo.

+1

Otherwise, lets just get rid of logging in all together...maybe IC should play for us...it should decide what we build and when, and also who we attack!

The fam bank is wasteful and inefficient. Ressers or bankers tend to aid in once or if lucky twice a day.  There is thus decay not only as it sits in the resourcer's or banker's coffers all day long, but there is even more decay on the GCs / res as it just sits there in fam bank every tick waiting for the person who needs it to come online.   Often, even when the person who does need the GCs / res finally does come online, that person ends up having to spend yet more time getting the attention of the fam banker, end up waiting around for the fam banker to respond to their message or even come online herself.  Then, maybe another tick is wasted because the fam banker and the builder have to discuss what they're going to build, where, how much, and, then, they have to do their calculations, etc, etc, ad nauseum ... People don't think about how much waste of income / GC there actually is with the fam bank system.  TICKS IS MONEY, PEOPLE. 

The fam bank isn't only inefficient, but it also actually encourages inactivity.  Why do people tend to aid in only once or twice a day?  Why don't they log in every tick to do something?  It is because under a fam bank system, there isn't anything for them to do every tick.  The fam banker wouldn't permit them to do anything even if they did because fam banker has a plan for when and how to use the income, and a schedule for its distribution.  This is their job.   And because of this, everybody knows that even if they were active every tick, they wouldn't be allowed to do anything.  Therefore, why bother logging in except when they are supposed to get something done with fambank funds or to aid in to it?  Moreover, because players know that vast amounts of income and res are going to be there (rotting away) when they should be there, players just log in when their are supposed to on schedule an no more than that.

The system I propose, on the other hand, would effectually have everyone aiding in every tick so that income and res doesn't sit around in bankers', ressers', and fambank's coffers most of the time and can instead be used the same tick it is produced.  Moreover, because everyone would have access to all the res and income produced by the whole fam each and every tick, people would know that if they were to log in every tick, there would be income and res available to them to do something every single tick.  This provides the potential for a fam to be 100% efficient with the fam's entire GC and res production.

This efficiency would in turn encourage activity. With the potential for fams to be up to 100% efficient, there would be more incentive for fams to make better use of the full res and GC income potential of the fam.  We'd see very quickly the effective success of those fams who use the merged funds system.  Those operating at close to 100% efficiency using the merge funds system would leave those fams who use the 'aid-in-once-a-day-fam-bank-system' far behind in the dust.

We all know the way to have a successful fam is getting the player who is to conduct plan A online at the right time to do it.   Often, a fam banker will wait for the player in question to conduct plan A holding on to res and income even more ticks.  They'll hold it even if that player is many ticks late.  The fam banker might have no choice but to do so because the plan calls for using plan A's res or GCs.  Moreover, plan B is put on hold because it depends on the leftovers from plan A.   Under merge funds system, however, if the person who is supposed to do plan A doesn't show up, the fam can use their income / res for an alternate plan A with a different player who is online.  This would motivate people who are to conduct those essential plan A actions to be online when they should be, because if they don't show up the fam will find someone else, and use their GCs and res to do so. 

The merge funds system would also provide flexibility for those cases when that person, in spite of all their intentions to do so, can't show up on time for one reason or another.  I mean, let's be real here: there are plenty of great players who would like to be online at those most opportune moments, but simply can't due to their other real-world responsibilities.  Why should a fam suffer simply because they've got important !@$# to do in real life?  Not all of us have the luxury to sit around at our computers every tick of every day, except maybe mods like Arby .

Arby.  You claim this system would be open to abuse.  I don't see it.  It is a fully transparent system, far more so than the fam bank system.  Also, if anyone can cut-off anyone else from the system at any time, any abuser, even the fam leader, could be held to account.

Also, this would be an optional system, not a system any fam would be forced to use.  Any fam could revert to the fam bank system, teams, or go SS, as they'd see fit, and, therefore, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't provide the players the opportunity to use such an additional optional financial system.  The more options available to players, the better...

Overall, the merge funds system would be more efficient, fairer, increase activity for those who should and can be more active, and relieve pressure on those who want to but actually can't be more active.

"personal preference - players will always put themselves first, and build what they want without knowing what is best for the fam..
E.g guy takes out half of bank and spends on 300% ob planets, when a guy that just expod 50 empties has nothing to build with.."

Right, and then someone cuts him off for rest of round.

"people can take what they need as and when they like"

You'd only merge funds activated with players who you trust to use good judgement when building.

"Fam bank is and will always be the most efficient method"

There is always a better way of doing things, in every situation, including IC.

It might be rare that a large fam could make it work, but it is possible.  More often, it would be used by teams of two:

The banker and resourcer team could coordinate and balance their economy so they are always reinvesting their res and GC every tick.  This level of efficiency could allow team-based fams to compete with fam bank fams.  It would actually help small fams who have some inactive or new players.

Xeno, what you're basing on, for small fam is team growth. Which is fine. Families that use teams do not use an entire fam bank system, but yet numerous small ones. Each team has their own. They already coordinate with each other within the team to grow. I see more downside to this system than an upside if implemented.

"I see more downside to this system than an upside if implemented."

There is no downside.  I guess I didn't explain it well enough.  It's like this:

You have your fam page with player's names.  In a column next to each name is a little box that you can check or leave unchecked.  Above the column of little boxes are the words "Merge Funds".  The boxes you check give access to your funds to that player.  If the player to whom you give access to your funds also puts a check in the little box next to your name, likewise you have access to their funds.  The box at this point turns green.  You can uncheck any of the boxes at any time.

"I'm against it, i dont really see this system contribute anything to the game other than less activity and abuse."

Please consider the implications of what I am suggesting.

"But in an active family, this vs fam bank - imo fam bank wins.."

This could improve the fam bank system.  Say you give another player access to your funds.  This doesn't mean you automatically have access to theirs.  A fam bank with the "merge funds" system would operate as such: everybody gives access to their funds to the two or three players in the fam who are chosen to run the fam bank, and each of those players gives access to their funds only to each other.  In this way, you have a fam bank that everyone aids into automatically each tick.  This can be dramatically improve efficiency and thus growth of the fam.  Now people will say that this will make players less active.  Well, is IC only about aiding in?  Is that all players are supposed to do?  Does aiding in = activity? 

This is just like any innovative technology which causes job losses temporarily as society transitions.  In spite of temporary chaos, innovation is good because it frees humans to do more complex labor.  Likewise, this system will free players to do more complex activity than they wouldn't otherwise not have the time to do.

Players wouldn't be less active; their activity would be use for more important tasks, like scanning systems for intruders, doing ops, planning, conversing about strategy, etc...

Try it in a test galaxy round.