Okay, on the "who was the favorite candidate" issue, I'm challenging both LP and Theo: Bring out your sources.  This whole thing of asserting your correctness and demanding that the other prove it is bullshit, and it won't get anywhere.  If you guys want to get into the issue, start pulling some internet links (legitimate news sources, not joesblogofutterbullshit.com) and prove your side.  In short, put up or shut up to both of ya.  X(

CIA said its a slam dunk that Salman Rushdie won by a landslide!!!

> The fact that ayasmelly said it himself. He said that it was not enough to be influential
> but he admit there was a big amount of cheating. But if even he sais it before you guys,
> it shows a great level of biasedness on your sides.

When did he say that?

"Still, it's an issue of bringing them out.  That way, we can compare specifics."

for exampel
http://www.terrorfreetomorrow.org/upimagestft/TFT%20Iran%20Survey%20Report%200609.pdf

you have a list on polls on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_presidential_election,_2009#Opinion_polls

interesting is by reading our main media over here a lot of newspaper state that the electione was manipulated without giving any proof at all..
i still fail to see any signifant proof so far...

and in this thread?
just comments like:

"So you propose that they did in fact count 30 million ballots in an hour?"

and

"But having more then 100% outcome in total is ridiculous."

which are obviosly untrue...
they needed like 12 hours to count this votes.
and if 39,165,191 out of 46,5 milion voters vote that less as 100%...

@Little Paul
feel free to explain me why 39 mil is bigger as 46,5 mil...

But next to the possible fraud in votes, there are some facts that are not denied by the leaders of Iran themselves.

Over 1000 Parties are denied the right to compete! That IS cheating. Foreign AND internal reporters said this to be true as well the top leaders.

Then there are some things left in the dark they don't seem to have an opinion about:
1.) Biased media (even more biased then ours yes )
2.) There are no foreign observers allowed. Not even from Russia or china.
3.) The parliament doesn't have the power it should have
4.) politicians who are political enemies are sometimes arrested.
5.) foreign reporters are sometimes arrested.
6.) Political activists are sometimes arrested
7.) The people in power openly promote one party
8.) Paramilitary organizations use violent tactics

@Little Paul

"That is the problem when you take Wikipedia for a sole source. 46,5 million is by no way an accurate estimation of how many people are in fact able to vote. Can you tell me where the number comes from? (let me guess, Iranian official -and very unbiased- sources?)."

oficial numbers... even mousavi uses them...
and you say that less people are living in iran as expected? because 46,5 mil voters out of 70 mil doesn't sound unrealistic
that they already lied the last electione? btw they even had 1 mil more voters last time..
so those 46,5 mil might even be to low

and the electione bevor the last electione?
so you telling me they are making up the numbers of since years.... and your prove is?
please a link...

"Which is twice as fast as last time. But he was referring to some bureaus not to the time the last vote was counted obviously."

no he said 30 mil votes in 1 hour...

"Over 1000 Parties are denied the right to compete! That IS cheating. "

same over here...you know in every coutry you need to meet some criterias to be allowed to be on the voting list.
like having a amount of supporters etc.  probatly in your country too..

your point probatly is that some candidates are not allowed to take part in the electione and canidates have to be approved by the ayatolla, not very democratic if you ask me, though thats not why the people are protesting.
and also that doesn't mean that the manipulated the votes.

"Then there are some things left in the dark they don't seem to have an opinion about:"

agree to most, disagree to some.. but that has nothing to do with the claimed "proven" manipulatione of votes during the electiones.

@Chris_Balsz

"How the hell could the BBC be running polls of Iran?"

they have an office over there?
but to admit they just qouted out of
http://www.terrorfreetomorrow.org/upimagestft/TFT%20Iran%20Survey%20Report%200609.pdf

>>Your entire argument is based on a logical fallacy.
If there was cheating, there will be conclusive proof.<<

My entire argument is that there will NOT be conclusive proof in a nation where the fascist regime in power squashes all forms of media and documentation of information. We cannot comfirm OR refute these claims because of the complete lack of information.

With international observers and media in America, it is much easier to produce actual evidence supporting or refuting claims of foul-play. For you to even compare claims of fraud in Iran and America, where there is absolutely no grounds to draw a parallel, is just ignorant.

In addition to not addressing this point, you additionally failed to provide any alternative functions of the secrecy other than that which I proposed. You merely claimed that my argument was based upon a logical fallacy, stating that there would be conclusive proof. As my argument was about why there isn't proof either way, your "logical fallacy" amounted to "you're wrong." And basing your awesome response to my post on an unbacked "you're wrong" claim and thinking you're right is logically fallacious.

Seems like no one cares.

Anyway, who said 30 million votes were counted in one hour?

"Seems like no one cares."
Your post where kinda long for not caring.

"Anyway, who said 30 million votes were counted in one hour?"
if they did it in 12 hours it would still be twice as fast as last time. That is strange considering the huge amount of voters.

> I would rather not jeopardize my new Iranian friend.

Who is probably some fat American .

Last Friday btw, thousands of people took the streets again after one of the most powerful persons in Iran (Rafsanjani) spoke for a release of the prisoners.

I hope so but I think it has little chance unless something like that happens again. Or at least in the short run.