Re: Censorship

"sigh, because you're being irrational, im gonna have to do the most extreme example i can think of. someone expresses himself by killing people; stopping him from killing people would be censorship, do you not support stopping such an individual?"

I certainly agree that surpressing such a persons form of expression could constitute censorship and as such I will amend my previous position.  I submit that all should have the right to not be censored however this only extends so far as it does not infringe on the rights of others.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

52 (edited by avogadro 16-Jun-2009 05:44:33)

Re: Censorship

what are the righs of others? do they include being able to live in peice which means no objectionable billboards within eyesight of their house? their tv? isnt all censorship done today to protect people's rights to not see that crap or to keep their children from seeing that crap?

Re: Censorship

Put down the crack pipe.

[I wish I could obey forum rules]

Re: Censorship

^

i lol'd

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

Re: Censorship

"what are the righs of others?"

Those outlined in your constitution, charter, what have you.

"do they include being able to live in peice which means no objectionable billboards within eyesight of their house? their tv?"

In my mind they shouldn't as what is/isn't objectionable is a very relative concept.  I find pretty pink unicorns objectionable, does that give me the right to storm around saying no one should ever be able to see, make image of, or reference to pretty pink unicorns.  Of course not and if I were to suggest I did I'm sure everyone would laugh.

"isnt all censorship done today to protect people's rights to not see that crap or to keep their children from seeing that crap?"

No.  Censorship done today is simply a means for people to enforce an out dated morality system to avoid having to deal with the reality of the modern age.  Alternatively it is a means for the overly sensitive PC crowd to avoid anyone being offended ever which to them is practically everything.  Censorship isn't and never has been about protecting people, we all choose what we do and do not watch/listen to and your billboard examples not withstanding (they are somewhat extreme you must admit), there is nothing we are forced to endure.  Censorship is about stifling creative expression in order to keep the masses in line.  And for the record this isn't some Marxist rant against big corporations or some Anarchist attack on government.  Government and business have their place and purpose, telling me what I can and cannot watch/listen to isn't one of them.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: Censorship

"Those outlined in your constitution, charter, what have you."

the rights in our constitution are very open to interpretation; so that it can be relevant as time passes by, so that the needs of the people at the time will be protected by it, which includes the need a large amount of people feel to have certain things censored.

"
In my mind they shouldn't as what is/isn't objectionable is a very relative concept.  I find pretty pink unicorns objectionable, does that give me the right to storm around saying no one should ever be able to see, make image of, or reference to pretty pink unicorns.  Of course not and if I were to suggest I did I'm sure everyone would laugh."

the only way i see this is relevant is if the amount of people that are offended by censored material was tiny, while infact, it is a decent percentage of the population, so your point fails.

"Censorship is about stifling creative expression in order to keep the masses in line."

lol, please provide examples of censorship that is stifling creative expression in the modern day in a first world country?

Re: Censorship

"the only way i see this is relevant is if the amount of people that are offended by censored material was tiny, while infact, it is a decent percentage of the population, so your point fails."

No, that people find my expression offensive doesn't not negate my right to that expression.  I don't know about the states but I'm fairly certain my country does not give me the right to not be offended.

"lol, please provide examples of censorship that is stifling creative expression in the modern day in a first world country?"

Any time can't or don't are applied to creative expression it has been stifled.  However you ask for examples:

Howard Stern - Left conventional radio to go to satellite because conventional radios restrictions were too confining.  He wasn't able to do the show he wanted his expression was stifled.

Family Guy Volume 7 - Includes material that the creator wanted to include but censors wouldn't allow, same as above.

Now I am by no means suggesting these are examples of noble and worthwhile expressions being restricted but if the freedom of expression was limited to what was worth expressing needless to say internet forums either wouldn't exist or be few and far between.  Heck most people wouldn't even be able to speak.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

58 (edited by avogadro 29-Jun-2009 08:15:21)

Re: Censorship

"Any time can't or don't are applied to creative expression it has been stifled.  However you ask for examples:"

im sorry, i shortened my question to make it not so repetitive, if you look at the context; i was asking for examples where censorship is being used as a tool to keep masses in line, by stifling creative expression, in a first world country.

"No, that people find my expression offensive doesn't not negate my right to that expression. "

sigh, so your country gives you the right of expression, so if you want to express yourself through murder, the state should support you? ofcoarse not; your state should protect its citizens from harm even if that means slightly limiting self expression, and many people would interpret being exposed to certain offensive material as harm.

Re: Censorship

"his chin kinda looks like balls....should we censor that too"

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

Re: Censorship

This is very very simple...

TV and internet censorship is BAD. Public place censorship is GOOD.

The reasons being that you can control very well what you watch on TV. If random erection ads come up on ur childs favorite tv channel, then you can obviously block that channel out with parental block. Also it is near impossible that someone will advertise that on a childrens channels because of the bad publicity for the channel and the advertiser. You guys conveniently ignore common sense and talk all kinds of philosophical bullshit.

Public place censorship is obviously bad because ALL people travel about the city. This includes children, drunks, drug addicts, grandpa, grandma etc... So if you advertise something in a public place that is  considered vulgar by the majority of the population, then you have no right to advertise that. Gay porn billboards is a great example. You can put those billboards in the center of the city and attract a lot of customers but you will also be damaging the little childrens brains who also travel in the middle of the city.

Re: Censorship

"sigh, so your country gives you the right of expression, so if you want to express yourself through murder, the state should support you? ofcoarse not; your state should protect its citizens from harm even if that means slightly limiting self expression, and many people would interpret being exposed to certain offensive material as harm."

It's the hierarchy of rights.  My right to life is 1st followed by freedom of expression, religion, association, so on and so forth.  A person's right to life is more important than another person's right to free expression, as I said before "to the extent it does not infringe on the rights of others."  Now if material is considered to be harmful to children (children have a right to be "free from harm" at least I think they do) it can be censored under this stipulation.  However I'm of the opinion that it is our behaviour towards material, not the material itself, that is harmful to children.  In other words if we don't make a big deal out of it neither will they.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

62 (edited by Theodora 01-Jul-2009 05:35:38)

Re: Censorship

Your opinion is wrong.


But if you don't believe me....have a kid....show it  sexual snuff films every night from the day it was born...don't make a big deal out of it...and see what happens big_smile



Some things (e.g. children's advertising) are harmful regardless of our attitude towards it.

To serve is to survive

Re: Censorship

and you are free to disagree.  I maintain that it is society's reaction to material not the material itself that is harmful.  If someone is exposed to something and made to believe it is normal they will act no differently then you or I do to something we percieve as normal.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.