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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

"But i'm going to go out on a limb, and assume you never served?"

No, I have not.  My dad was in the RAF and worked in South East Asia for a while back in the early 70's, but I have had no desire to join the military in any way.  I'm quite happy being a research physicist.  wink

I am gay, however, and am no stranger to homophobes and people that would sooner see me dead than alive.  And I've also seen what homophobia can do.  It isn't pretty, I can assure you, even in an "enlightened" Britain. 



"Your [sic] attacking the WRONG talking point, you are attacking HOMOPHOBIA as it were."

and

"Dissolution of above said policy would create hysteria, among the majority"


And for what reason?  There's no need to answer that as it was a rhetorical question, but we can all guess the answer.   

Now, you may think that I calling for the tolerence of others based on sexual orientation missed the point, but that is the crux of the problem - you've effectively said the same thing when you said that people in America are intolerent towards homosexuals (so much for the "land of the free" etc etc.). 

Homosexuals need not be marginalised based on their sexuality, but unfortunately it will require people to open their eyes and see the world through a less blinkered vision. 


Oh, and by the way, this comment earlier really made me chortle but I forgot to mention it in previous posts. 


"Guess what your fire team, consisted of you and 3 other gay men were just put out on a recon mission into an isolated district of an Urban city. 3 Guns are fixed on you, and 3 Gay men are eyeballing you like a Pizza at a weight watcher's convention"


If you seriously think that the three homosexuals are going to be more concerened fantasising over you when all four are in a high pressure, life-or-death situation, instead of thinking about how the hell the four of you are going to get out alive, then I suggest that you're deluded.  There are some gorgeous men in the world, but when you're staring death in the face, the last thing you're going to be thinking about is who you want to bone next.  Sorry if that pricks your ego, but homosexuals do also have the same instincts of self-preservation as heterosexuals. tongue 

But anyway, my original point still remains.  Let us suppose for a moment that you did end up in a situation where you were surrounded by three gays in a high-pressure, life-or-death situation.  You've basically said in this thread that you would be happy if you didn't know they were gay, but unhappy if you knew that they were.  That is irrational and illogical and entirely your problem, not the gays'.  Unless you meant something else?

To those who understand I extend my hand; To the doubtful I demand to take me as I am.

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52 Reply by avogadro (edited by avogadro 03-Nov-2008 22:40:25)

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

"My example was a Biosphere devoid of female interaction, i understand big words are hard for you to understand but here "THAT MEANS FEMALES WOULD NOT EXIST TO PROCREATE"."

yes, you posted about a biosphere but you didnt relate it to the argument smile how does a fictional biosphere devoid of female interaction have to do with whether or not you should allow openly homosexual individuals in the military?

"
You can't even type straight."

you're the one too stupid to make connect points to the argument; you just call names and then post made up facts and dont even draw conclusions from your made up facts.

"Experienced members? I've been posting on this forum (with a 2 year break), since 2004, so please Educate yourself."

am i supposed to be impressed? you been posting since 2004, except for 2 years, so you have 2 years experiance. i've been posting since 2000 with no more then 6 month breaks.

"
That alone sums up how STUPID you are."

why is that? explain the problem with it...

"
Haha, Christ your the saddest example of public school failing I've ever seen, I tested in on WAIS-R, and other IQ tests and scored 148."

first, i didnt have public schooling; private with scholarships the entire way, through college. also, good for you testing high on IQ tests, they're jokes, i've scored 170 on 1 before. but i'll still give a pat on the back.

"till i joined the Marines, and did something with my life unlike YOU."

oh, did something with your life did you? you mean fight in Iraq and/or Afghanistan? well congratulations and costing your country trillions of dollars, and ruining the reputation of your country and your president... if thats what you call accomplishing something, im happy nothing i did fits your definition of it.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

@ Lat

Your problem is your personify people that don't think like you.

Because I'm straight is it right to assume that other straight people won't rape someone?

No, just because your gay you can't say what a gay person will or won't do, and besides, your still taking this into the wrong direction..

We are not talking about homophobia in the Military, we are discussion a policy that works, and that Obama plans to get rid of, for a trade-off thats going to cause much more harm then good.

What I've been looking for since i opened this thread, is opinions on THAT, not the social acceptance in America of Gays.

I'm also looking to see if anyone can fabricate a better policy.

- Also re-read the comment, there are plenty of times you can be out on patrol in a non-hot spot, but isolated perhaps just a check point or just searching through rumble, the point of that comment was to show how MY security and safety can be affected.

@Avo, hope you enjoyed wasting your time posting that
[flame]

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

@Imperial
don't ask don't tell is great, keep it the way it is.  you'd like it anyway, you don't have to tell anyone you're gay.

oh and your does not = you're, please take care of that, its bugging me.

you never got a 148 on any IQ test, that's a lie, you probably couldn't even get that on an online one.  but tell you what, if you take one and get above 120, you'll win hands down, you can even post the results.

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

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55 Reply by lmperial (edited by The Yell 22-Nov-2008 21:35:51)

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

[flame]

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

poor, imperial, cant come up with any better argument then childish name-calling. i pity him.

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57 Reply by Justinian I (edited by Justinian I 04-Nov-2008 01:26:55)

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

If I were a mod, I would totally close this thread for flaming. You dudes should probably chillax.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

your did killed himself to get away from you didnt he Imperial?

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

yeah mod...shut it dooooowwwwwnnnn!

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

Yeah, a i think a mod should close it, because neither 420 nor Avo has managed to make a single point other then the fact they are ignorant and immature.

But i didn't need to point that out, just read their posts.. kids.. Ethugs even so sad.

Anyways, thanks all who inputed *Intelligent posts, i enjoyed hearing your opinions.


your did killed himself to get away from you didnt he Imperial?<=== Is that english? LMAO, thanks for the laugh.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

Lat and I were having a good Convo here.......you all should just follow along.
420....remember..... not a good idea to do grammar/spelling checks on people in forum.....you are not perfect either.


Lat,  I think you feel persecuted just for being Gay.
Im sure it is not easy.

Im not saying, dont ask dont tell in life.
Im saying, in the military....and more specifically, writing of my knowledge/experience in the US Infantry....
Im specifically writing about the TOPIC of this thread.

There is a very tough emotional bond between men in combat....and yea, its in a very MANLY manner.
Now...Thats not said in a homophobic manner.....its just that as little distractions as possible is what I want in a unit that I am in command of.

Having a gay man in your unit will make it very tough on HIM to make that bond in the unit.
You need your entire unit, no matter how large, on board as one team, working in cohesion.
There is STILL an uneasiness about a gay man in close with young men.


Now, show me an open gay sports figure, on a high level professional team, that there is no distractions about it.

I have no problem discussing this with you Lat, but I think you have to be objective here, and understand my point.

again, personally, today as an older man, I have no problem with this......as a young man, 19 - 20 .... in my unit ?   Yea...there would have been problems, not specifically with me....but through out.

Come .......joust w/the master.
I'm always Right.   You are just intellectually Left.....behind.
Individual patriot, and a REAGAN Conservative.

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62 Reply by Ouro (edited by 420 04-Nov-2008 15:46:09)

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

older, more mature individuals are much more able to deal with issues like homosexuality, as you have said BW.  younger individuals however, are unsure of their sexuality and feel threatened when a homosexual is in their midst, especially in a hyper masculine institution such as the military.  its just sad that young guys would be so scared of their own sexuality that they mind gays so very much.  i myself am heterosexual, but dont give a damn if a gay guy talks to me, doesnt bother me at all, because at the end of the day, i go home with a girl.  so what does it matter?  i understand that they're scared, most homophobics are actually homosexual themselves so its only natural to try and hide it, but if you're hetero, then who really cares? 

yes imperial, that was english, with one spelling mistake, since you love spelling you're wrong, maybe i like spelling dad wrong, c'est la vie.

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

oh, and imperial, check this

http://www.iqtest.com/

i guess you can actually take it online.  since you said you recieved a 148 on a standardized iq test, then you should breeze right through this one, and you can show all the nay sayers in this forum how brilliant you are.

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

420,

Good lord, not that IQ test. It's such a joke lol.

Have him take this one (http://www.iqtest.dk/main.swf), it's one of the most professional IQ tests available on the internet. Though, it still doesn't match the quality of one administered by a psychologist.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

Nay sayers? What you, and Avo? The guy that thought that compares heterosexual's to incest practicing heterosexuals?

Nah, no thanks i don't need to amuse you, or anyone else - I know what my IQ is, i took one my 12th Grade year, i also took 1, my 2nd year in the Marines, I'm aware of my IQ, it's you who seems confused on it.

Yes, we all make typos, and thats the point, don't pick someone out of a lineup, when you yourself are standing in it.

Back to the topic at hand, the discussion of why people might be homophobic or uncomfortable with homos in the military is good, but an overshot of the issue, we can say whatever we like about the average Joe in the military, problem is, they don't read this forum and won't get educated, they are young, like i was, and are extremely stereotypical, and there is nothing anyone here can say about it, you have an animal you can't change the behavior of it, and you know if you throw in another animal they will fight... what do you do about it?

I don't think there is a better policy then whats enacted now, and i think Obama is a moron for even considering this.. and no one yet has touched on Obamas point of enacting this... so it still goes to show.. the Gay community can not come up with >1< good reason why it should be allowed, all they can do it point out the obvious that Young Americans are very homophobic, and the American Culture doesn't accept it..

Way.. to go... Cap'in Obvious..

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

look, im just playing devil's advocate.  i think the policy should be, if you're gay, just shut up and be gay, no need to rub it in people's faces. at the same time though, the heterosexuals in the military should just stop bitching and get on with their lives instead of assuming everyone's gay because of a "dont ask dont tell" policy.  if you like the policy then just enjoy the fact that its there and shut up, dont point fingers.

we just put the IQ test up there so you could prove it.  you were always saying to cite your sources and give factual backing, thats your chance to do so, but if you dont, thats fine, we know whats up, just dont go around saying you're god's gift to intellectuals.

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

I took the test and I got 340

see how that works? 

Stop noodging about online IQ tests

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

> The Yell wrote:

> I took the test and I got 340

see how that works? 

Stop noodging about online IQ tests>>

Haha you liar!

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

exactly, so stop noodging about it tongue

(you scored a 100 on TY quotient )

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

> The Yell wrote:

> exactly, so stop noodging about it tongue

(you scored a 100 on TY quotient )>>

At least I'm still be in the top 50% club for Yell smile.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

yeah i call BS.  those tests are mostly crap, but if you say that your IQ is above 140 on a standard test, then you should be able to blow those up.....maybe not 300+ though

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

> 420 wrote:

> look, im just playing devil's advocate.  i think the policy should be, if you're gay, just shut up and be gay, no need to rub it in people's faces. at the same time though, the heterosexuals in the military should just stop bitching and get on with their lives instead of assuming everyone's gay because of a "dont ask dont tell" policy.  if you like the policy then just enjoy the fact that its there and shut up, dont point fingers.

we just put the IQ test up there so you could prove it.  you were always saying to cite your sources and give factual backing, thats your chance to do so, but if you dont, thats fine, we know whats up, just dont go around saying you're god's gift to intellectuals.


Listen i agree with your views on the policy, almost 100%

I never said i was "god's gift to intellectuals", because I'm not.  I am an Intellectual, but i haven't made my mark on this world Yet*, i only stated my IQ because someone with completely idiotic ideas was bragging about his I.Q.

I don't waste my time with I.Q. Tests online i know they are B.S. and a waste of time, besides i checked out Just's I.Q. test just to look at it, it's 40 questions of pattern recognition which is basically 1 out of almost 10 different areas an I.Q. tests measures - Depending on the test of course.

Anyways...

Why would i jump when someone tellls me to jump?

Why would i do an I.Q. test just because your telling me to? Do i have the time or desire to please someone's curiosity online.. no.. but thanks anyways.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

> 420 wrote:

> yeah i call BS.  those tests are mostly crap, but if you say that your IQ is above 140 on a standard test, then you should be able to blow those up.....maybe not 300+ though


You know the funny thing, i was failing my senior year, i was en route to be in high school at least 2 additional years, my Counselor had been elevating failing Seniors, and he claimed my teachers said i was gifted but lazy, he sent me to the U.F. Campus ((Hell it was a day off of school aside from a few hours taking a I.Q. Test)), He got the results weeks later, and confirmed my I.Q.

To be honest a the time it didn't mean crap to me i thought he was just trying to motivate me into studying more...


At first it didn't work, but in time it set in...

I took extra classes, night ed, adult ed, and i some how managed in my senior year to make up 2 years worth of lost credits.

How high your I.Q. doesn't mean crap to me, As good ol' Ben Frank said

"A Genius with out education, is silver in the Mine".

I'm more focused on actions and not potential, I.Q. is nothing with out the man it belongs to willing to make something of himself.

I learned that in the Marines, - And if you spent time in the Marines you'll find that even the lower 50% of people can teach us higher 20%s a thing or 2 about life.


Thats my story, it's a tear jerker.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

my first post on this thread was that IQ tests are BS.  Einstein really did score an 85, which is borderline retarded as far as the test in concerned, but he also happened to have changed the way we see the universe.

> Justinian I wrote:
> Ouro,
Even though you were the first one to arrive at the scene who clearly pwned Einstein and showed how biased he is, you are an outright arsehole.

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Re: Obama's dissolution of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

> 420 wrote:

> my first post on this thread was that IQ tests are BS.  Einstein really did score an 85, which is borderline retarded as far as the test in concerned, but he also happened to have changed the way we see the universe.


We have not even begun to understand Einstein, it will be many years before we as a people catch up to him.

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