Login is disabled. This forum is read-only.
Imperial Forum → Politics → Flags from Democrat Convention, Tossed in the Trash.....is Rescued.
there is the enviromental aspect to this news story. the flags could have been recycled. hell, those flags could have even been given to homeless people to keep them warm at night. throwing away perfectly good material is stupid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnIf4et0hwo
Michael Christian was willing to die in the hands of the N Vietnamese to make and display to other soldiers an American Flag.
Our National Anthem was inspired by a previously pro-Britain man who then became Pro-USA upon seeing an American Flag surviving the nonstop fire of the Brits.
The soldiers who raised the flag at Iwo Jima risked their lives to do so, and willingly.
Special medals issued regarding flags:
ALLEN, NATHANIEL M.
Rank and organization: Corporal, Company B, 1st Massachusetts Infantry. Place and date: At Gettysburg, Pa., 2 July 1863. Entered service at: Boston, Mass. Birth: Boston, Mass. Date of issue: 29 March 1899. Citation: When his regiment was falling back, this soldier, bearing the national color, returned in the face of the enemy's fire, pulled the regimental flag from under the body of its bearer, who had fallen, saved the flag from capture, and brought both colors off the field.
CLARK, HARRISON
Rank and organization: Corporal, Company E, 125th New York Infantry. Place and date: At Gettysburg, Pa., 2 July 1863. Entered service at: Chatham, N.Y. Birth: Chatham, N.Y. Date of issue: 11 June 1895. Citation: Seized the colors and advanced with them after the color bearer had been shot.
DORE, GEORGE H.
Rank and organization: Sergeant, Company D, 126th New York Infantry. Place and date: At Gettysburg, Pa., 3 July 1863. Entered service at: ------. Birth: England. Date of issue: 1 December 1864. Citation: The colors being struck down by a shell as the enemy were charging, this soldier rushed out and seized the flag, exposing himself to the fire of both sides.
MUNSELL, HARVEY M.
Rank and organization: Sergeant, Company A, 99th Pennsylvania Infantry. Place and date: At Gettysburg, Pa., 1-3 July 1863. Entered service at: Venango County, Pa. Birth: Steuben County, N.Y. Date of issue: 5 February 1866. Citation: Gallant and courageous conduct as color bearer. (This noncommissioned officer carried the colors of his regiment through 13 engagements.)
O'BRIEN, HENRY D.
Rank and organization: Corporal, Company E, 1st Minnesota Infantry. Place and date: At Gettysburg, Pa., 3 July 1863. Entered service at: St. Anthony Falls, Minn. Birth: Maine. Date of issue: 9 April 1890. Citation: Taking up the colors where they had fallen, he rushed ahead of his regiment, close to the muzzles of the enemy's guns, and engaged in the desperate struggle in which the enemy was defeated, and though severely wounded, he held the colors until wounded a second time.
ROOSEVELT, GEORGE W.
Rank and organization: First Sergeant, Company K. 26th Pennsylvania Infantry. Place and date: At Bull Run, Va., 30 August 1862. At Gettysburg, Pa., 2 July 1863. Entered service at: Chester Pa. Birth: Chester, Pa. Date of issue: 2 July 1887. Citation: At Bull Run, Va., recaptured the colors, which had been seized by the enemy. At Gettysburg, he captured a Confederate color bearer and colors, in which effort he was severely wounded.
TOZIER, ANDREW J.
Rank and organization: Sergeant, Company I, 20th Maine Infantry. Place and date: At Gettysburg, Pa., 2 July 1863. Entered service at: Plymouth, Maine. Birth: Monmouth, Maine. Date of issue: 13 August 1898. Citation: At the crisis of the engagement this soldier, a color bearer, stood alone in an advanced position, the regiment having been borne back, and defended his colors with musket and ammunition picked up at his feet.
This is just from one battle in the Civil War.
People have died for the American Flag, they have endured torture for it, and it demands respect for their actions at minimum, if not for the symbology that it stands for the idea, the concept, the entirety of the United States.
There is a reason why those who hate the United States burn the flags improperly of the United States.
i was previously under the impression that the soldiers at iwo jima risked their lives to capture the island, not to raise a flag. it's never too late to learn new things.
the Island was far from subdued when they raised the flag. They had just captured that peak. The enemy still had artillery and mortars, as well as the potential for some heavier machine guns to have range on that location.
They raised the flag in spite of these dramatic dangers present. It is celebrated in military history, and American history.
uhuh. so what was the strategic primary objective? capture the peak or hoist a flag?
The objective was the peak.
The flag raised morale throughout the Island, and was not requested, or required by the command.
> Einstein wrote:
> "The objective was the peak.
The flag raised morale throughout the Island, and was not requested, or required by the command."
Yes, when the flag was raised, the Japanese were far from finished, they had constructed an elaborate tunnel network running across the island which took a substantial amout of time, resources and manpower to clear out completely. The flag was raised to show American forces had gained the upper hand on Iwo Jima.
"Of course he was just a Godless, America hating leftist-liberal-communist-elite-media satanist."
Sure, and he also mocks a War Veteran to boot.
By the way:
Probably made in S. Korea.....the part kept free by American Blood.
But, after all, stuff like military service, and patriotism......are funny to:
". . . a Godless, America hating leftist-liberal-communist-elite-media satanist."
of course, it's impossible for a war veteran to act foolishly or do stupid deeds. everyone who has been in a war is a perfect human. someone who mocks a war veteran is clearly insane.
I can understand some outrage at the disposal of the 3' x 5' cloth flag, I personally don't feel that strongly about my country's flag as a symbol but I understand some people do, but for the tiny little paper ones who cares. Keep in mind it's just a flag, a symbol of your country representing certain values, principles, and freedoms that your country believes in. The physical flag is not important it's just a piece of cloth, there are millions of them, what is important is what the symbol means.
@ Lucifuge
I would have to say you understand the point.
If you dont, well, Im sorry in advance. Because at this point, you are only being an asshole.
Raise the flag at the highest point, for all to see. In one of the toughest, bloodiest battles of the Pacific, with a beech full of blood and bodies, to look up at the highest point, and see the flag waving......means the battle is almost over. Victory is near. Moral is lifted, spirit is rejuvenated, and the soldier fights harder to get it over with.
Many of the men who raised that flag on Iwo, later died on that island.
AGAIN....though....your mockery proves YOUR position and continues to make my point quite clear.
Continue all. Reinforce my theory.
sigh. that democrat rally, those flags were a part of a show. after the show, they had served their original purpose as a piece of scenery of the show. they weren't used as toilet paper, they weren't collected for a huge bonfire. they were in no way treated in a manner that would suggest some sort of "antiamerican" behaviour. they were just thrown away. granted, it's stupid. the only thing even to discuss about this incident is the enviromental aspect. why throw away stuff that could be recycled? like i said earlier, those flags could be given the homeless people so they'd stay warm at night, or they could be resewn to be socks, or pretty much anything. they could have just as well been handed out as hankerchiefs. anything but throw them away. throwing away stuff that is still useful represents consumerism at its worst.
wow what a fuss over a couple of bits of rag 
I suppose they dont approve of American flag toilet paper then 
in any case the story is bogus, more lies from fox news.
heres a more credible report:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/06/politics/animal/main4422762.shtml
Who ever did decide to toss them in the trash and not be countered on that decision is not being questioned here.
I'm not head hunting for the people responsible.
I'm pointing out, the position of those making that decision.
Do you think the left over food and drink made it to soup kitchens or some other public advocacy agency ?
People who work the trash, or who found out about the situation, new that the TRASH was not the proper place for leftover flags.
The FLAGS are going to boy scouts troops, or to veterans orgs as they should have gone.
People volunteered their time to save these flags, so they can be used.
Yea. Its stupid. Agreed.
Why is it an ENVIRONMENTAL consideration ?? THAT to me, is far down the importance factor.
Consumerism ?? ROFL. Oh, I see. Its the evil HUGE CORPORATIONS that made these people decide to toss the flags in the trash.
hehe.
Your projected uses of the flag as socks or handkerchiefs continues to make my point.
Hasn't changed my mind of you.
ROFL...... CBS to the rescue ?
CBS News. The Same network that decided NOT to air the PALIN speech ??
The same news agency that had to FIRE its ANCHOR ??
CBS news, that skews polls as it sees fit ?
The same CBS News, that broadcasts poll numbers with Deviations greater than +/-5% ..... (known as the small number in the bottom called the "Margin of Error")
I hope CBS Broadcasts this story as well.
NO No, that didnt happen, we have an UNNAMED Source, who is not cleared to talk with the media, that spoke to us the media, that can clarify this story.
hehe.
now you're finally getting there. trash is not the proper place for something that is still useful. it would be equally bad if they threw away 4000 pairs of sneakers worn only once. well, actually worse since sneakers are more complicated products to make.
where did you pull that huge corporation stuff from? even the word "consumerism" suggests the decision is made by consumers. individuals. if it was made by corporations, i suppose it would be called corporationism.
btw, why do you capitalise some words? looks doltish. there's not really much point trying to shout on a bbs where everything comes out as text anyway.
BW, i would trust CBS more than Fox, do you want me to begin with all the "mistakes", false accusations and clearly biased news fox has presented throughout the years?
and supall, as far as the people who died for the flag, i honour them, i respect them, i'm greatfull for them, but in my opinion showing your respect and honour for them just by raising a flag is pointless. If you wanna honour them and respect them, you help the nation they created, if you wanna honour and respect them even more, you spread word about them. That would show your honour, and respect for America SOO MUCH more than just keep a flag safe.
"But according to a senior official involved in organizing the Democratic convention"
If they named someone, I would instantly flame McCain as a liar. Yet they cannot name anyone, even though it would be a coup of unheard of proportions, where they could instantly make McCain out to be a liar of such nature as to doom his campaign instantly.
No your unnamed source is a figment of the reporters imagination.
Plus since all campaign expenses are tracked, I dare you to find McCain 'buying' those flags. He did not. Obama bought them, and they got thrown out.
Trying to defend the undefendable with false sources, boy your off to an awesome start here Lucifuge.
And if they were not trash Obama's campaign would be pressing criminal charges.
End of story
what the hell? i didn't even comment on that cbs news piece and you're saying i'm trying to defend it? how? telepathy?
my apologies, selu ku wrote it, when I scrolled up I accidently saw your name, assumed it was the post, scrolled down, and I apologize
Anyone who would "Trusts" ANY news source, is a donkey and a fool.
Yea, sure Glad, do so. Start a new thread.
Be sure when you post a "Mistake" there is no retraction.....as most seem to pass over.
CBS, never retracted the false papers they used to ATTEMPT to tamper with a presidential Election.....but you trust CBS.
Go figure.
You and your type enjoy the lowest rated News broadcast network. Could that be because the American public knows CBS is not trustworthy ?
Any wonder why FOX happens to be the highest rated ??
@ Lucifuge...... I use CAPS, because I want to. You dont like it, to bad.
Leave your pompous criticisms of what you perceive to be PROPER etiquette at the log in page.
That crap doesn't fly on this forum.....it certainly doesn't effect me in the least except lower my perception of you a bit.
Also, leave your diction and spelling lessons to other forums as well.
It will do you well here to ask for clarification or a follow up if you dont understand either.
Einstein
i'm sure you're familiar with:
innocence until prooven guilty:
proove the people at invesco field guilty, your next post better be about all the facts that PROOVE that the people at invesco field threw out their flags 
--
and BW, i've never watched CBS, i only really watch CNN --i feel they are the most un-biased,
fox is republican
MSNBC is democrat
i'd put CNN in the middle, even if they are a little to the left, they still report mostly from an un-biased view.. and have correspondents from both the democratic side and republican side
and i love how you can associate me with a group of people without even knowing who i am , you got nothing more than assumptions which i'm sure are mostly all false
blackwing:
someone's aggressive. why is it that i think your view of leaving etiquette at the door isn't shared by everyone? just the way you put it, "doesn't fly on this forum". like you assumed you're the herald of everyone here. with statements like that, you shouldn't really accuse anyone else of being pompous also, me asking about it clearly affects you, as it produced an effect: you took the time to reply to the question.
as for etiquette, etiquette is merely a collection of social norms that people usually follow for the sake of convenience. kind of like moral is often a code determined by the society one lives in. and the ones who feel like disregarding it are often referred to as anarchists. i've noticed this particular forum is a weird place; i already got called a satanist because i asked someone if he's an advocate of islamic law. never before have i seen people so eager to label others. well, excluding pentecostalists, but those folks are a wee bit on the eccentric side anyway.
Lucifuge
Fire is the appropriate way to dispose of a worn flag
There were photos of flags bagged for the trash the day Obama left the Convention center for Invesco Field, so I don't why McCain couldn't have got some of them.
ehh.. so you would have preferred democrats burning thousands of american flags instead of throwing them away? can't even imagine what the headlines would have been like if it went down like that.
agreed, no reason why mccain couldn't reuse the flags. recycling is mostly a good idea.
Imperial Forum → Politics → Flags from Democrat Convention, Tossed in the Trash.....is Rescued.
Powered by PunBB, supported by Informer Technologies, Inc.