Wow....this thread has life.

If the Leftists, and and Anti-US crowd supports a RUSSIAN Military invasion, and then looks to the US in Afghan and US in Iraq as an example of ...WHY... Russia is allowed to invade Georgia.....I guess my view has been wrong.

After understanding ... NOW... that Georgia was totalitarian PUTIN kind of state, then democratically elected a Pro-Western state,...... KING PUTIN then put sanctions on Georgia.

Georgia then opened its economy to the west, and prospered.

PUTIN got pissed, and started to fund and support the separatist movement in the Rouge region.

Hence, the Escalation, and Russian intervention in the INTERNAL happenings of its neighbor.

Its a Russian power play, on its little neighbors that has always been a Russian/Soviet play.
After all, Georgia was long ago conquered by IVAN ...... Yes ??   So, Russians believe Georgia to be a Russian territory.

After looking into this, I see King Putin CONQUERING a sovereign land.  Its wrong.
And you Leftists support it.
This is troubling.   You support Russian aggression, a land grab, and point to your hatred of the US as a reason why it is OK.

It truly is possibly the start of a new Cold War. 
One, that the Euro-Pacifists will sit out again.........

Dumb.

> If the Leftists, and and Anti-US crowd supports a RUSSIAN Military invasion

Who supported an invasion? I only see self-defense and the defense of the two areas in question. Neither wants to be apart of Georgia, and Georgia was stupid to try military action.

> We should get a 99-year lease on a bit of Georgia coastline and put up and airbase.

Why? So you can spend 99 years aiming weapons at someone you are too afraid to attack? .

> Its wrong.
> And you Leftists support it.

So...Russia cant keep the peace right next door, but the U.S. is allowed to travel right around the world? Yeah, right.
What would have the U.N. done? Nothing. They are useless.

So for the same reason the U.S. attack Iraq, Russia stomped on Georgia.

> It truly is possibly the start of a new Cold War.

I have said it before: This is still the same cold war. Nothing has changed.

>>After understanding ... NOW... that Georgia was totalitarian PUTIN kind of state, then democratically elected a Pro-Western state,...... KING PUTIN then put sanctions on Georgia.

Georgia then opened its economy to the west, and prospered.

PUTIN got pissed, and started to fund and support the separatist movement in the Rouge region.

Hence, the Escalation, and Russian intervention in the INTERNAL happenings of its neighbor.

Its a Russian power play, on its little neighbors that has always been a Russian/Soviet play.
After all, Georgia was long ago conquered by IVAN ...... Yes ??   So, Russians believe Georgia to be a Russian territory.<<

Yes because the US has never, ever supported rogue groups in sovereign nations, nope not once.

>>It truly is possibly the start of a new Cold War. 
One, that the Euro-Pacifists will sit out again.........

Dumb.<<

Yes those Moronic Pacifist Leftist Dogs not wanting to get dragged into decades of boundless paranoia, restriction of freedom, persecution of the discontent, and all those other wonderful things the last Cold War brought.

> Black_Wing wrote:

> Wow....this thread has life.

If the Leftists, and and Anti-US crowd supports a RUSSIAN Military invasion, and then looks to the US in Afghan and US in Iraq as an example of ...WHY... Russia is allowed to invade Georgia.....I guess my view has been wrong.

After understanding ... NOW... that Georgia was totalitarian PUTIN kind of state, then democratically elected a Pro-Western state,...... KING PUTIN then put sanctions on Georgia.

Georgia then opened its economy to the west, and prospered.

PUTIN got pissed, and started to fund and support the separatist movement in the Rouge region.

Hence, the Escalation, and Russian intervention in the INTERNAL happenings of its neighbor.

Its a Russian power play, on its little neighbors that has always been a Russian/Soviet play.
After all, Georgia was long ago conquered by IVAN ...... Yes ??   So, Russians believe Georgia to be a Russian territory.

After looking into this, I see King Putin CONQUERING a sovereign land.  Its wrong.
And you Leftists support it.
This is troubling.   You support Russian aggression, a land grab, and point to your hatred of the US as a reason why it is OK.

It truly is possibly the start of a new Cold War. 
One, that the Euro-Pacifists will sit out again.........

Dumb.
______________________________________________
Maybe the Euro-pacifists want Americans to do their dirty work
until
they're (the EU'ers) strong enough on their own,
the Americans lose enough of their power and/or are spread out too far,
and the Americans set up enough political and geographical situations in the EU's favor, eh?

"I will fight for your right to be wrong!" << S.G. Tallentyre
"I am a flexible centrist: not stuck on right-wing, not stuck on left-wing, and not stuck on centre...and I don't flip-flop either" <<< me
Fighting for peace is like stopping the raping of a virgin.

"I can also see China joining the club as it has also certain provinces who would like independence..."

Best thing is China doesn't adhere to the same principles. They won't and haven't had a problem violently putting down rogue provinces. On the other hand, we're somehow raised in thinking self determination is a good thing, inevitably leading to conflicts.

"If the Leftists, and and Anti-US crowd supports a RUSSIAN Military invasion, and then looks to the US in Afghan and US in Iraq as an example of ...WHY... Russia is allowed to invade Georgia.....I guess my view has been wrong."

Au contraire, I'm everything but in favour of a Russian invasion of Georgia. But it is true that the Americans shouldn't shout too much as they use exactly the same techniques

"After understanding ... NOW... that Georgia was totalitarian PUTIN kind of state, then democratically elected a Pro-Western state,...... KING PUTIN then put sanctions on Georgia.
Georgia then opened its economy to the west, and prospered."

Debatable, Georgia is struggling to prosper, but at this time the Russians are better off than the Georgians.

"PUTIN got pissed, and started to fund and support the separatist movement in the Rouge region.
Hence, the Escalation, and Russian intervention in the INTERNAL happenings of its neighbor.
Its a Russian power play, on its little neighbors that has always been a Russian/Soviet play
After all, Georgia was long ago conquered by IVAN ...... Yes ??   So, Russians believe Georgia to be a Russian territory."

Yes indeed, the Russians invaded a country wich they believe is in many ways theirs. They see it as the West taking control over their zone of influence.

"After looking into this, I see King Putin CONQUERING a sovereign land.  Its wrong.
And you Leftists support it.
This is troubling.   You support Russian aggression, a land grab, and point to your hatred of the US as a reason why it is OK."

No we're not. We're just adding a nuance.

"It truly is possibly the start of a new Cold War.
One, that the Euro-Pacifists will sit out again........."

Hardly. "Sitting out" is quite an understatement.

"
On a side note: I do honestly believe that Russia started this war. Saakashvili would've been insane and would've been a sadomachosist to have started this himself. I don't really believe media in general on specific topics (as e.g. who started the war) for media never know everything and they tell even less (willingly or unwillingly). I more expect Russia to have created a form of "staged attack" comparable with Germany invading Poland in 1939 and no-one intervening."

then they must have payed Georgians inetrior minister who claimed a few hours bevor russian attacked that his troops controll most of south ostsetia now, that heavy fighting is going on and that his troops almost controll the capital...
also the Georgia Tv stationes in georgia who were showing firing aterleri the whole night must be faked...
interesting is that Saakashvili anounced a ceasefire 3 hours bevor his troops started adavncing

oh yeah Saakashvili claimed later that he never sent troops there and that this all is facked yadayadayada....
he also claims now that his troops never bombed the capital of southostsetia and that russian troops deytroyed is...
so all this reporters who say georgia troops firing at the capital are also KGB agents...
that guy is a bit insane if you ask me..  a lawer.. tries his best to lie his ass out of this shit

remeber it was him who tuned down a German peace initiative 1 week bevor this started.

@ ALAN......ok..... in a way.

@ Grushdeva..... Again, ok in a way.  It sets an intrnational statement.

Thing is, Serb troops came in and was killing non-serbs for fun.....that is why Kosovo has a soveriegn land.

Its this "Genocide" excuse that the Russians keep using to go into Georgia.

Again.......Skoe, your best example is well if the US can do this (That you happen to stomp at any chance you can)  then Russia can do this....that you embrace.

Dont you see the EXTREME hyprocracy ??   Or are you just being [something worse than a hypocrite] maybe ?? 

@ Esa....hehe.

"then they must have payed Georgians inetrior minister who claimed a few hours bevor russian attacked that his troops controll most of south ostsetia now, that heavy fighting is going on and that his troops almost controll the capital...
also the Georgia Tv stationes in georgia who were showing firing aterleri the whole night must be faked...
interesting is that Saakashvili anounced a ceasefire 3 hours bevor his troops started adavncing"

it's the notion "Georgian army in Ossetia justifies Russian army in Tblisi" that gets us confused. 

America is a fraud full of gibbering cowards without honor.  That's clear.  I ask people, "Suppose Bush just declared war on Russia, what would it do?"  "You're insane! Gas would skyrocket! we are bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq! There's nothing we could do!!"  I say, we don't need to conquer Russia, we can wreck it, take out its pipelines, wreck the port of Vladivostock, wreck the transsiberan railway, start forest fires in the Arctic, smash its airfields---and that with our fleet, it has no overseas air bases, it has no global navy, if the Russian fleet sailed out to do battle it would be the most lopsided fight since the Battle of Manila where we sank the Spanish pacific fleet and lost 2 guys to a lucky shot.  Bomb its economy to standstill and do billions of dollars of damage until it pulled out of Georgia. "NO!! Logistically impossible, nobody would agree to help us, no leader is talking like that, and what about their nukes??"  "A nuclear attack gets a nuclear response."  "NO you're insane your just babbling"

So that is SENSE in America, just so you know and understand: we can't fight Russia.  No matter what.  Align yourselves accordingly.  Turkey, for instance, could probably get HUGE terms from Moscow for leaving NATO. After all, the cowards in the US and Europe wouldn't fight for Turkey, so why should Turkey put its ass on the firing line? It was neutral in WWII and only joined NATO cause it knew Russia historically wanted the Dardenelles and was spouting World Communist Revolution.

And through it all Bush and the smart set in Washington, including McCain, still think Russia will help us contain Iran.  Because as I'm told, "capitalism needs stability" and Iranian nukes will bring instability.  Crap, who sold Iran its reactors?  Who told VP Gore to STFU when he said selling nuclear tech to Iran was naughty, 10 years ago?  Nuclear Iran = USA never fights Iran like we never fight Russia = 500,000 man Iranian army can go where it likes = Irans neighbors (anybody in missle range) appease Iran = US Navy out of the Persian Gulf and Central Command out of Central Asia =  Russia rid of the pesky Yankees in the backyard.

It's 1938 all over again.  I'm glad I don't live in Taiwan.

They do not want a nuclear war, and a conventional quick smack on their face and warning that if they persist then it could eventually lead to that nastiness would set them on the correct path again.

"It's 1938 all over again.  I'm glad I don't live in Taiwan."

If our fleet moves toward Russia, it would be stupid for Taiwan to not surrender.