Re: Morale for Attacks

LG wrote:

I wake up and I'm out of moral that tick. Seems boring to me. Maybe if both fams declare war with each other there is no moral loss ?

I get the farming part but right now we are in a war not started by us but are bigger and can't keep up. Now imagine last place fam declared war also on one of us.

Well look at the dynamics. 99 wars 02' and then 03'. They nap. 98' gets l8 start b/c leader has personal issues too take care of. But catch up. 96' & 01' enter war that should have never occurred. 00'& 99' start war and 00' recieves short stick of candle when 98' & 96' still had same planet count as 99' but joe ties/naps and not even IA (since allowed this round).
But everyone gangs up on 96' instead b/c they have best end and no one too challenege them while largest families dragged back down. Now 01' & 02' have perm and 03' is far too small in planet count.... to be hurt by any pluggers. If everyone understood how the morale was calculated this round would play differently and become a lot more fun b/c of changes.

02' & 01' never would fight 99' one after another b/c there position on map would impose nice war set up l8r in round.
98' would smash 00'
96' would get murdered by 03' b/c of planets... tongue

One life to live in is all that a person needs. When traveling down a road looking for the ascension to greater things, all that really matters is the way you got to the end, when you reach your final destination did you help or hurt more?

Re: Morale for Attacks

I've read the old posts, and a couple of people suggested we lower the moral cost for retakes.  That would allow people to defend themselves.

Re: Morale for Attacks

You could also do a variation on the core system, where anything within 10 ticks of your hs would be a core system, and then retakes in your core systems would always be free.

Consider that retakes are different then attacking.  If the point of the moral system is to prevent farming, then it should allow retakes.

I'll call it anti-farming.  Right now a small player can take pl, and a bigger player can't retake pl.  It's not as bad as when a smaller player can't retake his pl, but it's still very frustrating.

29 (edited by Lone Tiger 24-Jan-2016 17:24:52)

Re: Morale for Attacks

New rules.   I want every active player to post an idea for how to improve the moral system.

No whining in this thread.   If you want to whine, there's a active thread for that in universal news.

Re: Morale for Attacks

Problems and solutions
1) Retakes take way too much morale:
- Core retakes should take less morale
- Morale loss dependent off ammount of other planets you have in the system (my cores are always far from HS for spread smile )


2) Morale has become scarce, so people favour attacking smaller players continuously all round instead of saving for the big fish:
- Lower morale loss on big players even more (0 or 0,5).


3) Morale is scarce, making the game boring.
- no morale loss on attacking higher ranked players smile

~Attacking is a Skill~
~Defending is an Art~

31 (edited by RareUK 28-Jan-2016 14:10:20)

Re: Morale for Attacks

- More Families:  To create a target rich environment

- More Morale Planets:  Basically every active or big player now needs 5 as standard.

- Increase Morale Planets:  Maybe from 1% a tick to 2%.

- Retakes:  Make all retakes a lot cheaper morale cost.

- War:  Adjust the war settings / war benefits so when you declare you get more morale off.

- Limit NAPS:  Maybe to 1 PNAP per round, and 2 other NAPS which can be broken, leaves possible targets and cancels open.

- Science:  Stop science points adding to NW so attackers can still research without even more NW added

- Banker Bonus:  Maybe if you hit a certain planet count 200+ you get a bonus in morale regain, bankers can then retake more.

- Increase Morale Operation:  Probably take to much messing around but getting rid of "Find Targets Planets" would even out the operations choices.  Currently wizards get 12 options where as agents only get 11 operation choices.   Remove find target planets which is useless with this number of players and then add an "Increase Morale" operation for wizards and agents so both then have 12 options to choose from rather than 11/12 as it is now.

- Attacking Morale:  Okay so basically it costs you 15% to attack that planet, if you WIN however it only costs 5%, if you lose and they defend the planet it costs 15%.

- Morale Building:  Again probably to much messing around but you could create a 1 off building that each player is allowed to build, the closest example we have so far would be a "Defence Station" something that each player can only build 1 of but that does a lot.  For example you can build 1 Morale Icon and get an extra 5% a tick back if you manage to build it.

- Limit Attacks:  Boo don't like it but basically if you could only attack a player say 20 or 30 times in 24 hours then sure the small players might take 20 planets, but bankers could retake 10 of them.   As it stands now the small attacker can attack you about 200 times and you can retake maybe 5.  If fixing morale is not an option then smaller attackers need limiting as its not fair them having 1000 attacks to our 50 retakes.

- Flight Time:  Silly idea but in reality people stuck on a ship for 6 weeks knowing they are flying to battle would have worse morale than a fleet that landed straight away.   What we need to attack, when do we arrive, 2 hours?  LETS GO!!!!  The shorter distance would have the less morale cost.   If I send 1m soldiers away for 1 week then okay people back home get a little worried for a week, if I send 1m soldiers away for nearly 2 months then yes it would effect morale back home more and in the fleet itself.

- Sacrifice Morale:  You would imagine in real life the bankers would support the attackers, throw the attackers victory parades / marching to war parades / controlling media.  That the bankers would do all they can to boost the morale of their attackers so maybe a system where a banker could sacrifice 25% / 50% of his morale and give it to an attacker could work.

- New Random Event:  Doesn't really solve the problem but sure a new random event like when your wizards or agents run away.  For the next 8 weeks players get a +x morale regain because of some celebration.   

- Change No Fear:  +10 Attack and +1% Morale Regain for 5 ticks.

- New Player Honour System:  Mods, leaders, and active players adopt a honour system where "New Players" are identified at SOR / early round and are left alone.   Say for example I attack a smaller family to much (which I wouldn't) but then sure mods, leaders, other players could message me and say, hey you have taken 30 planets leave them alone their noobs, or 3 or 4 fams will hit you.

- War Morale Boost:  When war is declared you get given a free 100% morale.   If your morale was at 0% it would automatically rise to 100% when war is declared, OR, if you morale was at 110% then it would rise to 210%.   Basically you get 100% extra morale when a war starts and its gone when used.

- NW Related Morale:  Really you would imagine the bigger your NW the faster your morale recovers.  That actually the person with the higher NW has more fresh troops / more rested troops / more new equipment / better medical care.   For example for every 2 million in NW you get an extra 1% morale regain per tick.   That would mean that the small attacker can still attack you 100 times but that the bigger attackers or bankers can recover morale that little bit quicker and do a more fair number of retakes.

- NW Costs:  Lower the NW costs of certain things:

Current Costs:

Bomber: 5 NW
Transport: 6 NW
Fighters: 3 NW
Buildings: 4 NW
Population: 0.025 NW
New Planet: 800 NW

New Proposed NW Costs:

Bomber: 4 NW
Transport: FREE or 4 NW
Fighters: 2 NW
Buildings: 2 NW
Population: 0.015 NW
New Planet: 600 NW

Not sure if that would help but in theory it should give the same advantage to the smaller player but keep NW down for the bigger active player.  That the ones would are really active done NW themselves out the game.

- Revenge Attack:  For every 5 planets they take from you, then you 1 get free attack back at 0% morale cost for every 5 planets.

- Loss Morale:  If a player loses over 35 planets in 24h then their population up rises with a fight or die mentality and the player gets a free 100% morale.  So if they were on 0% it goes straight to 100%.

- Population Costs:  Obviously needs to be looked at, it would be totally stupid to let the new morale system ruin pop banking as an option.  Killing the NW of population would hopefully still allow pop banking and make sure families stay a little closer in NW.

- Double Account Galaxy:  I guess this would only work for the hard core players who can be very active, but perhaps setting up a galaxy where there were 3 players in each family, but each player got to control two races in that family.  Loads of 6 man families basically but run by teams of 3 people.  Who cares if its open to abuse, who cares what the problems are, if we had 2 million players it might be more of an issue.   This would however increase family numbers if done right, that teams were picked and drafted.

- Undefended Planet Bonus:  If you attack a planet and it has no defence at all, no portals, no station units, maybe even no hovering fleets then you take that planet really easily, you don't have a single loss, your men / fighter crew all rejoice, they are all happy so get a serious reduction in morale costs for taking that undefended world.   If however there is reticence either via portal or even 1 station droid then it costs full morale.

- Visible Morale Planets:  Don't like it us attackers would just spend all round fighting over them, more morale planets is a good idea.  But no I don't agree visible morale planets would be an answer.

- Home World Morale Planet:  One option is to make everyone's starting world a morale planet, that would assure each player gets at least 1 morale planet and would also mean you only need to find another 4 to hit the max of 5.

- New Forces Morale Boost:  In a realistic theme you would imagine building new forces added morale, that if you built 100'000 new solider's you would get a +1% morale bonus back.  That when your people see those 1 million new fighters flying over the capitol you get 10% bonus back.

- Morale Storage: Have a system where you can save 25% of your morale.  So when your sat there not fighting and you have 100% morale you can move 25% to a bank.  You lose 25% of your morale and it slowly rebuilds each tick until 100%.  Then if a war does strike you have 100% morale and 25% in the bank.

- Noob / Inactive Family:  If mods could simply draft all the new or semi active players into one family.  Even if they missed a few if like 80 or 90% of the new players could be put in the same family then we could simply leave that family alone.  I am sure certain players would even draft in as mentors / guides to identify those new players who are active and willing to play.   

- Operations OR Attack Morale Boost:  Maybe when you made a race you could decide between getting a reduction in your attack costs, or a reduction in your operations costs.   Like when you start a round you pick to either be a opper or attacker and get a small 2% reduction in costs for whichever you pick.

- Activity Morale:  Not sure how but its a shame we can not link morale regain to activity, say for example that every tick you send aid to the family you get an extra 1% morale regain that tick.  Okay you still have to sleep but for those ticks you were there, building, sending aid, sending fleets you got an extra 1% each tick as a reward for activity.

- Laser Morale:  Not sure how this would work but one would imagine if you lived on a planet that had say 250+ lasers you would feel  lot more defended.  Maybe an empires number of total lasers could somehow effect morale, for every 10k lasers get 1% morale regain.  Doesn't matter if their all built on 1 planet or spread over a 100 planets just matters that with each laser the population feels a bit safer hence more morale.

- Increase Custom Race Points:  You currently get 120 points to build a race, we could increase that to say 140.  The reason for that would be so players could at least try some new combo's, could take a few more of those operations.   That really for some bankers life is proper boring, with a few more points they could at least be involved more on a operations side.  In this climate we need bankers doing PI / basic retakes / operations support.   In the current round Northern Army in 67 has done really well despite adding a ton of NW to his family, however if he had another 20 race points he could have picked 4 more operations and been more involved / even more helpful to the family all round.  Like say hey morale sucks, but at least I do get some involvement now.  Anyone who has built a custom banker race knows that as banker with +50 income your points are soon gone, we have attackers loaded up with 10 to 15 operations and bankers with 2.  In my opinion +50% income costs to much, I say more ops would bring banker involvement even higher.   Most attackers would pick +20% magic or less income loss.

- Fleet Admiral Morale:  Fleet admiral gets a extra +1% morale regain would be a good addition.

- Leader Morale Bonus:  Leader should get +1% morale regain per tick for been leader.

- Fleet Marshal / Field Marshal:  Rather than having "Fleet Admiral" create 2 new tags the idea been a family would have someone dedicated to attack and someone dedicated to defence.  The fleet marshal would obviously be the attacker with fleets to fly away and attack other worlds, where the field marshal would be the defender.  Both get +1% morale regain per tick.  This would allow active members of the family to get a reward for been active and to reform a few more retakes a day.

- Increase The Cost Of Attacking:  From a money point of view if it cost a little more to send to attack fleets then the smaller attacker could still attack, but a little less.  Where the big attacker or banker could do a few more retakes as they earn more.  Maybe a system where attack costs increases depending how many you do it 24 hours, each attack gets a little more expensive.

- Defence Station Morale:  Each defence station adds +1% morale gain for that family.


Overall.......

I really don't think we need this system to protect new players because there are very very few new players, and very few new players who would understand morale or the game.   

Think by now I'm just rambling as per usual, but there are some suggestions at least, even if for the future.

Re: Morale for Attacks

Great ideas, amen

~Attacking is a Skill~
~Defending is an Art~

Re: Morale for Attacks

RareUK wrote:

- More Families:  To create a target rich environment
We can do this, but as discussed before without more players this won't work as we'll end up with more families without enough active players to do anything

- More Morale Planets:  Basically every active or big player now needs 5 as standard.
This is being discussed

- Increase Morale Planets:  Maybe from 1% a tick to 2%.
No

- Retakes:  Make all retakes a lot cheaper morale cost.
Don't believe this is an option

- War:  Adjust the war settings / war benefits so when you declare you get more morale off.
Might be possible

- Limit NAPS:  Maybe to 1 PNAP per round, and 2 other NAPS which can be broken, leaves possible targets and cancels open.
I prefer no naps, but meh.

- Science:  Stop science points adding to NW so attackers can still research without even more NW added
Doubt this would be effective as it would decrease morale across the board.

- Banker Bonus:  Maybe if you hit a certain planet count 200+ you get a bonus in morale regain, bankers can then retake more.
Doubt this is possible

- Increase Morale Operation:  Probably take to much messing around but getting rid of "Find Targets Planets" would even out the operations choices.  Currently wizards get 12 options where as agents only get 11 operation choices.   Remove find target planets which is useless with this number of players and then add an "Increase Morale" operation for wizards and agents so both then have 12 options to choose from rather than 11/12 as it is now.
Would need a lot more details on how this would work

- Attacking Morale:  Okay so basically it costs you 15% to attack that planet, if you WIN however it only costs 5%, if you lose and they defend the planet it costs 15%.
Doubt this is doable.  If it is doable, I'm not sure what it would do besides possibly stopping fleet running...which isn't effective with the new system anyway.

- Morale Building:  Again probably to much messing around but you could create a 1 off building that each player is allowed to build, the closest example we have so far would be a "Defence Station" something that each player can only build 1 of but that does a lot.  For example you can build 1 Morale Icon and get an extra 5% a tick back if you manage to build it.
Doubt it's doable

- Limit Attacks:  Boo don't like it but basically if you could only attack a player say 20 or 30 times in 24 hours then sure the small players might take 20 planets, but bankers could retake 10 of them.   As it stands now the small attacker can attack you about 200 times and you can retake maybe 5.  If fixing morale is not an option then smaller attackers need limiting as its not fair them having 1000 attacks to our 50 retakes.
Doubt it's doable

- Flight Time:  Silly idea but in reality people stuck on a ship for 6 weeks knowing they are flying to battle would have worse morale than a fleet that landed straight away.   What we need to attack, when do we arrive, 2 hours?  LETS GO!!!!  The shorter distance would have the less morale cost.   If I send 1m soldiers away for 1 week then okay people back home get a little worried for a week, if I send 1m soldiers away for nearly 2 months then yes it would effect morale back home more and in the fleet itself.
Using this logic, if you sent 2 million droids it wouldn't matter how long it took or what their morale was since they're..you know...droids

- Sacrifice Morale:  You would imagine in real life the bankers would support the attackers, throw the attackers victory parades / marching to war parades / controlling media.  That the bankers would do all they can to boost the morale of their attackers so maybe a system where a banker could sacrifice 25% / 50% of his morale and give it to an attacker could work.
Doubt it's doable, if it was it would just lead to players complainign that bankers can't retake

- New Random Event:  Doesn't really solve the problem but sure a new random event like when your wizards or agents run away.  For the next 8 weeks players get a +x morale regain because of some celebration.   
Kind of cool, but probably counter-productive

- Change No Fear:  +10 Attack and +1% Morale Regain for 5 ticks.
Might work

- New Player Honour System:  Mods, leaders, and active players adopt a honour system where "New Players" are identified at SOR / early round and are left alone.   Say for example I attack a smaller family to much (which I wouldn't) but then sure mods, leaders, other players could message me and say, hey you have taken 30 planets leave them alone their noobs, or 3 or 4 fams will hit you.
If something like this is to take place, it would be community driven.

- War Morale Boost:  When war is declared you get given a free 100% morale.   If your morale was at 0% it would automatically rise to 100% when war is declared, OR, if you morale was at 110% then it would rise to 210%.   Basically you get 100% extra morale when a war starts and its gone when used.
I think the game would probably reject this as the hard cap on morale is 110%...but increased regen or something along those lines when you're at war might be good to look at.

- NW Related Morale:  Really you would imagine the bigger your NW the faster your morale recovers.  That actually the person with the higher NW has more fresh troops / more rested troops / more new equipment / better medical care.   For example for every 2 million in NW you get an extra 1% morale regain per tick.   That would mean that the small attacker can still attack you 100 times but that the bigger attackers or bankers can recover morale that little bit quicker and do a more fair number of retakes.
If we increase the # of morale planets, this should be taken care of as theoretically bigger families would have more.

- NW Costs:  Lower the NW costs of certain things:

Current Costs:

Bomber: 5 NW
Transport: 6 NW
Fighters: 3 NW
Buildings: 4 NW
Population: 0.025 NW
New Planet: 800 NW

New Proposed NW Costs:

Bomber: 4 NW
Transport: FREE or 4 NW
Fighters: 2 NW
Buildings: 2 NW
Population: 0.015 NW
New Planet: 600 NW

Not sure if that would help but in theory it should give the same advantage to the smaller player but keep NW down for the bigger active player.  That the ones would are really active done NW themselves out the game.
Again, I don't think this would have much of an effect as it would take place across the board

- Revenge Attack:  For every 5 planets they take from you, then you 1 get free attack back at 0% morale cost for every 5 planets.
Doubt this is doable

- Loss Morale:  If a player loses over 35 planets in 24h then their population up rises with a fight or die mentality and the player gets a free 100% morale.  So if they were on 0% it goes straight to 100%.
Doubt this is doable

- Population Costs:  Obviously needs to be looked at, it would be totally stupid to let the new morale system ruin pop banking as an option.  Killing the NW of population would hopefully still allow pop banking and make sure families stay a little closer in NW.
Disagree that the new morale system is ruining pop banking as an option.  Pop bankers typically make more cash than cf bankers...families that go with a big pop banker are just knowingly sacrificing morale. 

We are however looking at a few options to give pop bankers a little help

- Double Account Galaxy:  I guess this would only work for the hard core players who can be very active, but perhaps setting up a galaxy where there were 3 players in each family, but each player got to control two races in that family.  Loads of 6 man families basically but run by teams of 3 people.  Who cares if its open to abuse, who cares what the problems are, if we had 2 million players it might be more of an issue.   This would however increase family numbers if done right, that teams were picked and drafted. No, no, negative, no, nope, no.  Would make tracking multi accounts in other galaxies almost impossible without a significant change to our tracking.

- Undefended Planet Bonus:  If you attack a planet and it has no defence at all, no portals, no station units, maybe even no hovering fleets then you take that planet really easily, you don't have a single loss, your men / fighter crew all rejoice, they are all happy so get a serious reduction in morale costs for taking that undefended world.   If however there is reticence either via portal or even 1 station droid then it costs full morale.
Doubt this is doable

- Visible Morale Planets:  Don't like it us attackers would just spend all round fighting over them, more morale planets is a good idea.  But no I don't agree visible morale planets would be an answer.
Since attackers are constantly complaining about there being a lack of targets in competition, what you describe seems perfect tongue

- Home World Morale Planet:  One option is to make everyone's starting world a morale planet, that would assure each player gets at least 1 morale planet and would also mean you only need to find another 4 to hit the max of 5.
Again, this wouldn't help with the balance issues as it would be across the board

- New Forces Morale Boost:  In a realistic theme you would imagine building new forces added morale, that if you built 100'000 new solider's you would get a +1% morale bonus back.  That when your people see those 1 million new fighters flying over the capitol you get 10% bonus back.
Doubt this is doable

- Morale Storage: Have a system where you can save 25% of your morale.  So when your sat there not fighting and you have 100% morale you can move 25% to a bank.  You lose 25% of your morale and it slowly rebuilds each tick until 100%.  Then if a war does strike you have 100% morale and 25% in the bank.
Doubt this is doable

- Noob / Inactive Family:  If mods could simply draft all the new or semi active players into one family.  Even if they missed a few if like 80 or 90% of the new players could be put in the same family then we could simply leave that family alone.  I am sure certain players would even draft in as mentors / guides to identify those new players who are active and willing to play.   
Seems like it would be terribly boring for the few new players we get

- Operations OR Attack Morale Boost:  Maybe when you made a race you could decide between getting a reduction in your attack costs, or a reduction in your operations costs.   Like when you start a round you pick to either be a opper or attacker and get a small 2% reduction in costs for whichever you pick.
Might be a neat idea...

- Activity Morale:  Not sure how but its a shame we can not link morale regain to activity, say for example that every tick you send aid to the family you get an extra 1% morale regain that tick.  Okay you still have to sleep but for those ticks you were there, building, sending aid, sending fleets you got an extra 1% each tick as a reward for activity.
Not sure that we have enough players for a system like this.

- Laser Morale:  Not sure how this would work but one would imagine if you lived on a planet that had say 250+ lasers you would feel  lot more defended.  Maybe an empires number of total lasers could somehow effect morale, for every 10k lasers get 1% morale regain.  Doesn't matter if their all built on 1 planet or spread over a 100 planets just matters that with each laser the population feels a bit safer hence more morale.
Doubt this is doable

- Increase Custom Race Points:  You currently get 120 points to build a race, we could increase that to say 140.  The reason for that would be so players could at least try some new combo's, could take a few more of those operations.   That really for some bankers life is proper boring, with a few more points they could at least be involved more on a operations side.  In this climate we need bankers doing PI / basic retakes / operations support.   In the current round Northern Army in 67 has done really well despite adding a ton of NW to his family, however if he had another 20 race points he could have picked 4 more operations and been more involved / even more helpful to the family all round.  Like say hey morale sucks, but at least I do get some involvement now.  Anyone who has built a custom banker race knows that as banker with +50 income your points are soon gone, we have attackers loaded up with 10 to 15 operations and bankers with 2.  In my opinion +50% income costs to much, I say more ops would bring banker involvement even higher.   Most attackers would pick +20% magic or less income loss.
If bankers don't know how to build a custom race with ops now, I'm not sure an extra 20 race points would help

- Fleet Admiral Morale:  Fleet admiral gets a extra +1% morale regain would be a good addition.
Might be doable

- Leader Morale Bonus:  Leader should get +1% morale regain per tick for been leader.
Might be doable

- Fleet Marshal / Field Marshal:  Rather than having "Fleet Admiral" create 2 new tags the idea been a family would have someone dedicated to attack and someone dedicated to defence.  The fleet marshal would obviously be the attacker with fleets to fly away and attack other worlds, where the field marshal would be the defender.  Both get +1% morale regain per tick.  This would allow active members of the family to get a reward for been active and to reform a few more retakes a day.
Might be doable

- Increase The Cost Of Attacking:  From a money point of view if it cost a little more to send to attack fleets then the smaller attacker could still attack, but a little less.  Where the big attacker or banker could do a few more retakes as they earn more.  Maybe a system where attack costs increases depending how many you do it 24 hours, each attack gets a little more expensive.
Might be doable, but it would be % based...so not sure how much change it would really have.

- Defence Station Morale:  Each defence station adds +1% morale gain for that family.
Not sure if this is doable


Overall.......

I really don't think we need this system to protect new players because there are very very few new players, and very few new players who would understand morale or the game.   

Think by now I'm just rambling as per usual, but there are some suggestions at least, even if for the future.


Took me 3 hours of glancing back and forth at work to get through this, but this is a perfect example of the limitations we work with....that's a large list with some pretty good ideas in it (a few would flat out cancel each other out)... With our current capabilities we're able to implement 1...maybe 2 changes a round.... So to make even half of those changes would take a year tongue

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Morale for Attacks

Forget about morale,  just give diffrent races a diffrent number of attacks they can make per round.

The muslim dictator of the united  states  Obama saports isis.

Re: Morale for Attacks

Anyone that attacks me gets 10 attacks per round and I get hundreds of attacks.  Im trying to be fair and balanced as fox news.

The muslim dictator of the united  states  Obama saports isis.

Re: Morale for Attacks

izard wrote:

Anyone that attacks me gets 10 attacks per round and I get hundreds of attacks.  Im trying to be fair and balanced as fox news.

And then everyone attacks fox new for being fair and balanced.

37 (edited by Lone Tiger 31-Jan-2016 13:57:55)

Re: Morale for Attacks

We need to disconnect or change this "honor system", so that we can actually play the moral system and see what it's actually doing.

This is the only game I've ever played where there are imaginary rules.  Any changes that are made to the moral system is just going to result in a change to the imaginary rules.

It's impossible to change the moral system, because the honor system is just going to make correction to change back.

With the old moral system, the honor system almost made sense.  But I don't think it's going to be possible to put a new moral system in place and still keep the honor system.

This could be done with a series of posts from the mods.  Clarify some new rules.  Maybe someone with some writing talent could come up with a new honor system.

Re: Morale for Attacks

So after about a round of playing as a small par tax I've come to this realization:

1) a 5% morale cost on information ops alone is crazy high. I would propose no cost at all, here's why. I'm currently in war, and to use a vision it costs me 5% morale. And let's say an offensive op costs the same. So I'm sitting at 10% morale cost. That's two ticks worth on a base morale gain for 1 offensive action. Atm I can retake a planet at 2%. One destroy iron basically costs me the chance to retake 5 planets. Over the corse of 12 hours that's 30 planets or 6 destroy irons, with having to only do one vision, and that's if you find the bank on first shot. Over a day that doesn't add up

Re: Morale for Attacks

Foohonian wrote:

So after about a round of playing as a small par tax I've come to this realization:

1) a 5% morale cost on information ops alone is crazy high. I would propose no cost at all, here's why. I'm currently in war, and to use a vision it costs me 5% morale. And let's say an offensive op costs the same. So I'm sitting at 10% morale cost. That's two ticks worth on a base morale gain for 1 offensive action. Atm I can retake a planet at 2%. One destroy iron basically costs me the chance to retake 5 planets. Over the corse of 12 hours that's 30 planets or 6 destroy irons, with having to only do one vision, and that's if you find the bank on first shot. Over a day that doesn't add up

I believe we're going to increase the total # of morale planets for next round.  I'm going to say we hold off on making adjustments here until we see the effects of that increase.  Theoretically if a family puts a premium on ops they can ship morale planets to their oppers... with the potential increase in total # of morale planets this should become more feasible.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Morale for Attacks

will the max still be at 10% morale then?

Re: Morale for Attacks

Good call on more morale planets Undeath.

I forgot to add....  If players do want more action / more combat / more wars then would a slightly accelerated start help?

I mean for the last 2 round the expo phase has basically finished about 5 days before the round ends or whatever, that really we see a lot of exploration then maybe a week of fighting near the end.   My theory been if everyone had a "Slightly" faster start the expo phase would finish 3 or 4 days earlier allowing more time for fighting, plus people would be ready to fight that little bit faster.

I'm not saying go overboard, maybe each player starts with 2 expo ships.  It would just cut down that SOR period by a few days and make things go a bit quicker.   Like saying if we had a bit longer to fight then you have more time to regain morale.

Not sure I'm saying that right, but people are saying "Boo Hoo" I can only attack 5 or 6 times with this morale sad but if we did have longer to fight then you would have more chance to attack.   So its not a change to the morale system, simply a change that would allow more time to fight.

Re: Morale for Attacks

I'd rather cut the # of planets significantly to shorten expo phase, similar to how we reduced # of planets per system in supernova this round.

<KT|Away> I am the Trump of IC

Re: Morale for Attacks

What would be the new % morale planets?

~Attacking is a Skill~
~Defending is an Art~

Re: Morale for Attacks

If you want more appeal to the game, restructure the family roles. Morale overhaul is one step to that direction, but I think we have taken a step to wrong direction now.

Attacking is the food of IC and everything else is just spice on top of it. Opping is the salt. Everyone should have food that tastes good. Yeah, not the best metaphore, because I would be eating quite a salty food sometimes, but I hope ppl get the point.

Now we have specialists in organized families and only attackers can really attack. In organized families attackers even take others planets and build their infra for them, because of their higher constr%. Bankers and ressies are too big (planets and NW) to even support with opps or retakes. They can really only take planets from attackers. Even taking NAP payment planets can be hard work when you pay 30%+ morale for each planet taken.

Roles are not bad, but there should be less specialization and at least less importance for attacker role.

Attackers do not need to be able to attack more than others. They usually are more active players than others anyway, so they can use their morale more effectively anyway. Their racial bonus in attacking is enough difference and they can choose to invest in military science. They will usually also get help from the family to get bigger fleet than other in the family. There should be no reason to make it easy for them to build infra for others by swapping planets within the family all the time.

Bankers make the cash allright, but they should be able to make some retakes during war and use opps effectively. It is important to require activity from these guys if family wants to win.

Ressies are the same, but they should be able to act as secondary attackers as well as opp the enemy actively. Same goes with these guys as bankers, active ressies would improve family´s chances of victory.

Players who only build infra and perhaps aid once a day should harm the family cosiderably more than now compared to families where bankers and ressies support those attackers with active opping and supportive attacking.

My solution:
-First get rid of all morale planets. That evens the morale playing field for everyone.
-Get rid of all cores and DS. No need to promote safety too much. If you want safety, build fleet, agents, wizzies and portals.
-Simplify morale formula. Every attack takes 5-15% with 10% being average and attacker/defender size and NW differences affect that no more than +-5%. Intra fam planet swaps would cost half. Small enemies planets get infra lost or blown up still, but now also size factors in, not only NW. Family size or NW has nothing to do with morale costs. It is handled differently. Same system could work with opps and it should be easier to success in opps.

If family would like to opp or attack a lot, everyone would be needed to take part in it. Extra small enemies could not sneak into enemy area that easily anymore.

Then there is the farming prevention. It is hard to enforce with ingame mechanics and I think the morale system is not the way. There should be completely own mechanic for this and to prevent NAP blackmailing too. I have a suggestion:

Enforced NAPs:
Game should have ongoing data about lost and gained planets (not updated tick by tick, but instantly after every succesful attack). When a family has lost say 5% of their planets during 48hrs to a single family, they have an option to enforce 24hr NAP against them. Of course the enemy can cancel the NAP right away and continue after that 24hr, but next time it will be 48hr NAP enforced, then 72hr and finally PNAP. Losing family will get time to recover, plan things, negotiate, whatever and for sure, farming will not continue forever.

Of course, if players could easily calculate this formula too, they would just take almost 5% every 48hrs or take almost 5% and then plan a massive raid to take as many planets as they could over that 5% before enemy gets time to hit the "enforce the NAP" button. Ok, it would still take some time to farm a family down with these restrictions, but I still think it it would not be fair to be able to calculate this, so why not add some small randomness to the amount that is needed for enforcement. Or even better, have the game calculate the chance to enforce a NAP and it would hit 100% after lost planets amount that 5%. Then family could try to enforce the NAP with 50% chance after they have lost 2.5% of their planets within 48hrs. Of course hitting that enforcement button would also reset the counter.

Also, every planet taken after that 5% limit, would be automatically blown up, so there would be no gain even if key fam members are not there to push the panic button when enemy raids heavily over that 5% limit.

I know, there would be those unlucky families who have hit their panic button 6 times in a round with 50% and got no NAPs enforced, but it could fail with 95% too or get you a nice surprise NAP with 5% when you need it badly. It all evens out in the long run anyway. Safest way would be to wait until it is 100%, because reseting the counter would also let enemy to gain more planets, because they can take another 5% without blowing any planets.

The button should be available for leader and VLs.

45 (edited by Lone Tiger 05-Feb-2016 15:57:41)

Re: Morale for Attacks

Zanharim wrote:

Enforced NAPs:
Game should have ongoing data about lost and gained planets (not updated tick by tick, but instantly after every succesful attack). When a family has lost say 5% of their planets during 48hrs to a single family, they have an option to enforce 24hr NAP against them. Of course the enemy can cancel the NAP right away and continue after that 24hr, but next time it will be 48hr NAP enforced, then 72hr and finally PNAP. Losing family will get time to recover, plan things, negotiate, whatever and for sure, farming will not continue forever.

Of course, if players could easily calculate this formula too, they would just take almost 5% every 48hrs or take almost 5% and then plan a massive raid to take as many planets as they could over that 5% before enemy gets time to hit the "enforce the NAP" button. Ok, it would still take some time to farm a family down with these restrictions, but I still think it it would not be fair to be able to calculate this, so why not add some small randomness to the amount that is needed for enforcement. Or even better, have the game calculate the chance to enforce a NAP and it would hit 100% after lost planets amount that 5%. Then family could try to enforce the NAP with 50% chance after they have lost 2.5% of their planets within 48hrs. Of course hitting that enforcement button would also reset the counter.

Also, every planet taken after that 5% limit, would be automatically blown up, so there would be no gain even if key fam members are not there to push the panic button when enemy raids heavily over that 5% limit.

I know, there would be those unlucky families who have hit their panic button 6 times in a round with 50% and got no NAPs enforced, but it could fail with 95% too or get you a nice surprise NAP with 5% when you need it badly. It all evens out in the long run anyway. Safest way would be to wait until it is 100%, because reseting the counter would also let enemy to gain more planets, because they can take another 5% without blowing any planets.

The button should be available for leader and VLs.

I really like this idea.  If we simplify the idea a bit, we can use the protection mode to do something similar.  Change the parameters on the protection mode.

Currently protection mode is at 50%,  5% would be too much, maybe set it at 25 or 30.  And you could adjust the amount of time protection mode lasts.  It currently lasts for 48 hours, which is a bit long.  24 hours is long enough to stop farming.

Re: Morale for Attacks

So, with your 30% limit, if superior fam fights an inferior fam with 1000 planets and takes total gain of 300 from them, then they get the protection for 24hrs. I don´t think 24hrs does much difference if superior fam really wants to farm enemy to death. It gives some time to regroup, but superior fam can also prepare for another farming raid. After that breather superior fam could then take them down from 700 to 490 planets before they hit another protection mode. Maybe "war" now would finally end and PNAP would be offered.

Sounds like farming and ruining a round.

I stand corrected however, 5% is too low. 10% limit would be better.

In my system with 10% limit, superior fam could take 100 from inferior, before they get the chance (100%) to take that 24hr NAP. That 24hr NAP gives both families a lot of options for negotiation or regrouping. Some fams might even not take the free NAP and just fight on and try to get some planets back. They would still have the chance to take the NAP later. In worst case scenario for the inferior, the superior fam would just cancel the 24hr NAP right away and take 90 more planets from inferior fam after waiting that 24hrs. Now inferior fam gets 48hr NAP and even if superior fam cancels that too right away, inferior fam could try to expo+portal into good position and jump attackers to hit enemy. After that attempt, inferior fam could lose only 81 planets until they would get 72hr NAP. Bloodthirsty superior farmer fam would cancel this too and could finally take only 73 more planets before inferior fam would get the free PNAP. Total loss would be 344 planets out of 1000. That is quite a lot, but it would take some time to take these, because of 144hrs of NAP time in between and also because inferior fam could get at least their defenses improved during those 3 NAP phases. Also, those NAPs would let other fams interfere and jump in. I don´t personally mind vulturing when the war is basically just farming. smile

Technically that does not prevent farming and NAP blackmailing, but it makes farming harder and limits the amount family can reasonably ask for a NAP. Also inferior family has some hope, because they know they will have chances to recover and time to negotiate.