51 (edited by Genesis 09-Dec-2013 21:43:52)

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

Nobody cares about Benghazi.

Not only that, but this obsession just alienates the average voter from the republican party even more. Keep it up and make sure your next candidate's economic policy is the same as Romney's, "close your eyes and cross your fingers".

It'll do wonders for you.

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

I care more about building a cadre than winning the next election.  Elections aren't going to be decisive very shortly.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

who would be in the cadre? tongue

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

Every state department head  knows the limitations of troops on foreign soil and movements thereof.  That's not news.  They also do need permission to land troops on foreign soil, and on that regard they would need more than an executive order from the president and/or congress.  In order to shuttle more troops into Benghazi, you'd need local government of said city to authorize those troops to land.  And that's where the break down occurred.  They couldn't get permission from local government offices to allow additional troop expenditures and movement into the contested area.

And tell the truth, I don't care about Benghazi either.  It's just a news story being perpetrated after a full year, in the hopes that it can be used to hang up Hillary's possible chance at a presidential 2016 run.

Personally, It's all political bullcrap on the republican side.  I'm republican and even I can smell the bullshit emanating from my own party lines.

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Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

Chris X(

No more revolutionary talk online! The NSA is watching!


Every State department before Hillary would start sending troops and seek permission while they are flying...


Key for class idiot.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
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56 (edited by The Yell 09-Dec-2013 23:44:02)

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

Every state department head  knows the limitations of troops on foreign soil and movements thereof.  That's not news.  They also do need permission to land troops on foreign soil, and on that regard they would need more than an executive order from the president and/or congress.  In order to shuttle more troops into Benghazi, you'd need local government of said city to authorize those troops to land.  And that's where the break down occurred.  They couldn't get permission from local government offices to allow additional troop expenditures and movement into the contested area.

Maybe the US govt should have somebody on full-time to organize that

maybe they can call that person "Secretary of State"

and then not give that job to Hillary Clinton

cause she sucks at actually doing anything

this is getting stupid, you are agreeing with us that there were concrete steps that occur to you off the top of your head to speed up any rescue to any foreign mission, then, you accuse us of BS for saying it should have done by a professional diplomat who was warned by her ambassador that an attack was imminent

Actually the AUMF of 9/20/2011 to go after AQ is all any president needs to go after AQ anywhere in the world.   Congress authorized Bush to send Marines into London after 7/7, if he felt like it.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

Genesis wrote:

who would be in the cadre? tongue

...why....you! You can be the courier. I'll get you a nice yellow and orange coat to wear, that's fluorescent in the Infrared band

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

58 (edited by Key 10-Dec-2013 00:43:31)

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

Einstein wrote:

Chris X(

No more revolutionary talk online! The NSA is watching!


Every State department before Hillary would start sending troops and seek permission while they are flying...


Key for class idiot.

No, you can't do it like that, because all it takes is a single leak, for the foreign country to go berzerk, knowing that combat troops are on the way to their country.  Even a small strike team would cause an international uproar.  They had to get permission first, before sending the plane.  The only thing they could do is, have the troops, security team on the tarmac, prepared to load on the plane, or already on the plane, but the plane would not be allowed to take off without final authorization.  The state department would have to get that authorization from the foreign country, and then congress would still need to hold an emergency session for troop deployment on foreign soil.

It's just one of those diplomatic gaffes, that nobody in politics wants to deal with.  And a lot of americans don't understand the run-around, or the red tape in these incidents.  On that regard, I think the Tea Party just don't have enough political knowledge of how our government ties it's own hands behind it's executive branches.  However the State Department is not the Armed Forces.  Even if the plane was in the air, with troops, and they didn't get permission...they would have to have the fuel to divert to another airfield...and then they would have to explain to the other foreign governments why a military plane with a fully armed combat team was onboard.  And then it still would go public.

Politics is a bitch.

Your still hanging one man's death, on one woman.  There's a lot more going on in the background, behind governmental offices and black curtains.

1.  Security incident.
2.  Calls for reinforcement.
3.  Options are balley'd back and forth.
4.  Decision is made
5.  Permission is sought.
6.  Permission granted/denied/unable to contact (unable to contact is still a Denied)
7.  Armed forces are contacted to send immediate troop reinforcements, if permission is granted by foreign country.

This process unfortunately takes more than 5 minutes.  Even the State Department had a hard pressed time to get the facts of what was really going on.  And the state department was given three different story's from the same foreign government.  One story said they had not heard of an attack.  Then it turned into there was an attack, but everything was under control.  Then the story AGAIN changed to there was a full on attack on the embassy in question, and the embassy had yet to be secured.

One question you should be asking is, why did the foreign country not send in immediate reinforcements in order to secure the embassy and lend support to the besieged consulate?

How long...did it take for foreign army troop/police support in order to help secure the embassy and repel the attackers?

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Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

You just keep digging.

Everything you can think of that would have slowed Hillary down...was learned the hard way in places like Mogadishu...so all your excuses are backfiring, because you're just showing how unprepared she was.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

Ah.  Ok, in that case, how prepared were you?  Come on, you can't say you would have been more prepared.  We all know you put your shoes on before your socks, so you couldn't have been any more prepared than she was. tongue

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Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

Key I would have done better than Hillary. Now by your logic she is trash.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

Your saying that you can predict every single event in the future and plan for every contingency, which is pure fantasy.

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Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

There is about 20,000 soldiers planning, and a number of State/FBI/NSA/CIA/SS/Other Agencies personnel, who's job it is to prepare for this stuff, and they have decades of institutional experience. She ignored it all.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

By your OWN admission, the FBI/NSA/CIA/SS and other agencies had planned responses, and those agencies have their own chain of command.

If plans were formulated to deal with such an intrusion on an american embassy on foreign soil, then why are you blaming one woman?  By your own admission plans were in place.  Which means those divisions could immediately act on.  OH WAIT...those are INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES.  FBI is for homegrown terrorist and criminal activity within the bounds of the United States, on that part you don't know their jobs or plans.  NSA, National Security Agency which has a few field agents, but usually does analytical data and information gathering.  CIA pertains to most threats outside the bounds of the United States and almost overlapping within the bounds of the United States.  SS...Secret Service?  The secret service has few agents, and they do not deal with Terrorist threats.  They are a bodyguard detail.

I'm sorry, all those Intelligence agencies has nothing to do with puting down physical private contractor security or military personel into the field.

FBI, NSA, CIA, SS...are all intelligence divisions, except for personal bodyguards of presidents and former presidents, that have nothing to do with physically guarding an embassy.  Private contractors and marines guard world embassies of the United States.  If those intelligence divisions failed to detect the attack, well that's their agents fault.

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Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

She said no to all plans and sat there and watched video of the Ambassador dying

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

66 (edited by Genesis 11-Dec-2013 00:29:36)

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

You need to realize that Libya is an independent country. You cannot park the 1st Cavalry outside the embassy in Tripoli or Benghazi.

Other than that, whether you had 2 cops, 10 private security guards, 20 marines or Rambo himself, people WILL die if a bunch of lunatics show up shooting the place up and firing rpg's and mortars and whatever the hell they used.

If the situation was that desperate (which it wasn't by any account), just close down the embassy and go home. This is just a non-story desperately being kept around by your own home grown crazies.

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

Genesis wrote:

If the situation was that desperate (which it wasn't by any account), just close down the embassy and go home. This is just a non-story desperately being kept around by your own home grown crazies.


Okay.  If you accept the premise that there were real signs of the impending attack, then it would be that desperate, and it would be incumbent on Clinton to have closed down the embassy, since the State Department runs the embassies.

Thanks for conceding Flint's point.  smile

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Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

Genesis wrote:

(which it wasn't by any account)

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

Fair enough.  Still, that's a separate debate to be had... one that can't just be brushed aside.

Make Eyes Great Again!

The Great Eye is watching you... when there's nothing good on TV...

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

It takes time to get units in the air and enroute, and longer to arrive.

In that time you can make phone calls to head of state, their 2nd head of state, the military leadership, and more.

Everything bad in the economy is now Obama's fault. Every job lost, all the debt, all the lost retirement funds. All Obama. Are you happy now? We all get to blame Obama!
Kemp currently not being responded to until he makes CONCISE posts.
Avogardo and Noir ignored by me for life so people know why I do not respond to them. (Informational)

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

Any battle is going to be over in minutes rather than hours. 

As for phone calls, does not MATTER, like it was posted above, you can not send a field army unit into a foreign country, WITHOUT THAT COUNTRIES APPROVAL!  The number of security is agreed on by two countries.  If the one country that has an embassy says, you can only have 20 troops, then that's ALL your going to get.  Even if Mr. Dead Embassy Man requested more people, it's not jointly up to him, or the State Department.  That goes over to the the National Security and the diplomatic attaché to the united states, and they then contact the foreign country in order to facilitate extra security.

Even if the woman wanted to do something about it, a portion of that decision to send additional security, within the bounds of congressional state department rules, regulation, and national law, still has to gain permission from a foreign body.

Ohhhhhh and Just for Einstein....

http://news.msn.com/us/poll-clinton-has … -elections

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Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

Key, the gunfight lasted 9 hours.

The idea that anybody can shoot up an American consulate for 9 hours within 4 air hours of Italy, and we won't have any plan in place to react in time, has the most grave consequences for all NATO security.

Key keeps pretending that the attack on Benghazi was a total suprise to Hillary Clinton, when her ambassador on the ground asked for extra security.  As Key points out, there were concrete measures that our top diplomat was in a position to do weeks in advance.  She didn't.

If anybody else was in charge Key would agree with us, but as he says, this is about a failure named Hillary Clinton, and it's not fair that we apply objective standards to the presumptive Democrat nominee.  We have to make excuses for her, lest we be meanies.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

73 (edited by Key 13-Dec-2013 02:56:21)

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

9 Hours, so where the HELL WAS THE FOREIGN TROOPS DESIGNATED TO PROTECT!

Come on! 9 hours!  Are you saying some piece of crap country can't even send in their OWN troops within in the embassadorial region of the area within the space of 9 hours themselves and help facilitate the protection of the embassy?  Or the police department?

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Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

A competent Administration would have a backup plan for When Arabs Won't Fight Al Qaeda.

The core joke of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is that of course no civilization would develop personal computers with instant remote database recovery, and then waste this technology to find good drinks.
Steve Jobs has ruined this joke.

Re: Why Hillary would lose in 2016

A competent administration isn't ready and willing to violate as many international conventions as you