Arent you just a very glass is half empty kinda guy??

i think what im trying to say is, stfu moron!

Not necessary Noir.

if it's only an hour, an open forum with no order and everyone being able to talk at once about completely different topics is probably not the most efficient way to do this.

Session Start: Sun Aug 11 06:05:33 2013
Session Ident: #Meeting

[06:49] <Lethal> lol, nice turn up
03[06:50] * M1ke ([email protected]) has joined #Meeting
[06:50] <Ragnarokkr> all the elite
[06:50] <Ragnarokkr> and Lethal
[06:50] <M1ke> am i late?
[06:50] <Lethal> whoooo
03[06:51] * FD|brb is now known as Final_Doom
03[06:58] * dpenguins ([email protected]) has joined #Meeting
03[06:58] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dpenguins
06[07:03] * Ragnarokkr glares at the door in excitement
[07:04] <Ragnarokkr> I want an autograph ^^
[07:04] <@dpenguins> hah
[07:09] <M1ke> stefan will show up, right?
[07:10] <Ragnarokkr> with a cape and awsome hair, just to stun us
[07:10] <Ragnarokkr> right at the second we fear he wont show
[07:10] <Ragnarokkr> thats how you make an entrance
[07:13] <@dpenguins> brb
03[07:16] * Squirrel ([email protected]) has joined #Meeting
03[07:16] * ChanServ sets mode: +oa Squirrel Squirrel
[07:17] <&Final_Doom> Welcome all smile
03[07:18] * KT sets mode: +m
[07:18] <@dpenguins> hey hey
[07:18] <&Squirrel> Greetings
[07:19] <@dpenguins> hey stefan thanks for coming
[07:20] <@dpenguins> essentially id just like to have a productive meeting today about ways to improve the game and keep old players as well as market to new ones
[07:20] <&Squirrel> Sounds excellent
[07:20] <@dpenguins> a lot of players including former mods have some decent ideas so i think it would help to throw out stuff etc
[07:20] <@dpenguins> cool cool
[07:21] <@dpenguins> ragnarokky why dont you go first since you're here in the room
03[07:21] * dpenguins sets mode: +v Ragnarokkr
[07:21] <+Ragnarokkr> yarr
[07:21] <+Ragnarokkr> Hi stefan, I am not a former mod, but I am a former forum-mod and ex-Virgo tutor
[07:22] <+Ragnarokkr> while I will not raise many wild ideas like we used to read all the time in the forums I would like to point out a few things
[07:22] <+Ragnarokkr> mainly about our new layout and functions
[07:22] <&Squirrel> Uh oh
03[07:22] * Tortoise ([email protected]) has joined #Meeting
[07:22] <+Ragnarokkr> it might be intresting aswell to say I havent played in a few years and have just returned
[07:23] <+Ragnarokkr> several things ahve changed since that and to be honest it is hard to find the correct info
[07:23] <+Ragnarokkr> like how much do cf's generate now, does costs still rise hen using cf's why is the 35%nw rule 40% now
[07:23] <+Ragnarokkr> the guide and faq are out of date <----- point 1
[07:24] <+Ragnarokkr> do I go on or wait for a reply?
[07:24] <@dpenguins> i think that's been pointed out but not sure who is working on that
[07:24] <&Squirrel> The guide and FAQ are in the process of being updated
[07:24] <+Ragnarokkr> very well
[07:24] <+Ragnarokkr> moving on then
[07:24] <&Squirrel> Mainly done by the mods, btw
[07:25] <+Ragnarokkr> while I find it very nice that I can now use ic on my mobile phone
[07:25] <+Ragnarokkr> there are some serious issues here
[07:25] <&Squirrel> I know - in particular if you have a medium to small sized screen
[07:25] <+Ragnarokkr> last round I could build on mobile no problem, now I cant mass select, nor see resource bonusses
[07:25] <+Ragnarokkr> making building basicly impossible
[07:25] <+Ragnarokkr> I wont even get started on the map
[07:26] <+Ragnarokkr> last round I could zoom in on the sidebar aswell, this is now gone
[07:26] <+Ragnarokkr> again, small screen likes to zoom
[07:27] <+Ragnarokkr> talking about sidebars, is there a reason I cannot select the old marble sidebar? it was very functional, and to be honest, the standard one now just is not
[07:28] <+Ragnarokkr> moving on to the map (not on mobile, just at pc)
[07:28] <+Ragnarokkr> I LOVE the new map functions, makes life a lot easyer
[07:28] <+Ragnarokkr> however scrolling on the map is a total bane, it always opens random systems, it resets to before scroll
[07:29] <+Ragnarokkr> I am currently located at the edge of the map, I wrap around and system checking is really tricky cause of that
[07:29] <&Squirrel> I have not noticed that. What browser and version of it are you using?
[07:29] <+Ragnarokkr> I would like to use the old map, but when I do it doesnt give the full map, justa  slice
03[07:29] * Sam is now known as Skyroshroud
[07:29] <+Ragnarokkr> firefox
[07:29] <+Ragnarokkr> should be updated
[07:30] <+Ragnarokkr> as in, I haev the latest update
[07:31] <&Squirrel> Very odd then. Again, I have not seen this at all, and I have tried it on FF extensively.
[07:32] <&Squirrel> But post a bug report about it in the map forum if you have not already
[07:32] <+Ragnarokkr> I know that my girlfriend who plays aswell, also on FF has the same problem
[07:32] <+Ragnarokkr> I have not, I thought it was a problem everyone had
[07:32] <&Squirrel> It is not
[07:32] <+Ragnarokkr> I'll do that then
[07:32] <+Ragnarokkr> lets see
[07:33] <&Squirrel> For a quick fix though, try Chrome. I mainly use that, so it gets first dibs at testing.
[07:33] <+Ragnarokkr> map, faq, mobile version
[07:33] <+Ragnarokkr> yes I think that wraps it for me
[07:33] <+Ragnarokkr> like i said, I wont spew mad ideas
[07:33] <+Ragnarokkr> oh one more Q, but that might be more for the mods
[07:34] <+Ragnarokkr> last round supernova, the Tokaasi empire, what happened to it, and is it still alive? do we ened to expect a story here or was it just a programmers fantasy come true?
01[07:34] <&KT> it has nothing to do with programming   it was a player
[07:35] <+Ragnarokkr> oh, I thought it wa sa pc-generated player, oh well
[07:35] <+Ragnarokkr> never mind then smile
[07:36] <+Ragnarokkr> yeah, that kinda wraps it up for me
[07:36] <+Ragnarokkr> over to you dpenguins
[07:37] <@dpenguins> so why dont we go back to the phone issue since that is a big one and this goes to a common feeling between undeath and myself and others.  while we appreciate updates we think it might be more effective to announce changes and let players test them in a short run galaxy or something like that instead of just implementing them
[07:37] <@dpenguins> and believe that would let vets playing the game fully vent out any issues with game play etc
[07:38] <&Squirrel> We do have a testing environment where (mods mainly) test new features/design stuff
[07:38] <+Ragnarokkr> not sure about that, a test gal does not need to be about players, mods can test functionality
[07:38] <@dpenguins> yes but not all the mods actively play the game
[07:38] <+Ragnarokkr> if it works it cant be put in, altough the choise on weather to use it or not would be nice
[07:38] <+Ragnarokkr> like the sidebar
[07:38] <&Squirrel> True, the number of testers could be increased
06[07:38] * +Ragnarokkr wants marble
[07:39] <@dpenguins> like rather then leave important things to a select few that don't necessarily respresent the feelings of all the community it might be more effective to allow increased participation from the community
[07:39] <@dpenguins> since this community is relatively small and most players have been here forever
[07:40] <@dpenguins> so it is not a case like WoW where that would be impossible
[07:40] <&Squirrel> I have no problem with more testers. Would be welcome, in fact.
[07:40] <@dpenguins> nice sounds good
[07:41] <+Ragnarokkr> brb, need to resart mirc
02[07:41] * +Ragnarokkr ([email protected]) Quit (Quit: <KT> Raggy, please have my babies!)
[07:42] <@dpenguins> so yea essentially i believe the vets would be much happier if more things like changes to gameplay were more open to a general discussion
[07:42] <@dpenguins> before implemented or just run by the mod team
[07:43] <@dpenguins> what are your feelings on that
[07:45] <&Squirrel> The mod team is essentially formed to represent the community to me, so the community kind of already helps decide
03[07:45] * dpenguins sets mode: +v Tortoise
03[07:46] * dpenguins sets mode: +v Skyroshroud
[07:46] <&Squirrel> But sure, with more testers will come more input
[07:46] <@dpenguins> the problem is that not everyone on the mod team is open to change
[07:46] <@dpenguins> so they don't necessarily represent the feelings of all
[07:48] <+Tortoise> I think that the lack of all around ingame experience of the current mod team affects the effectiveness of how the mods can judge and convey the ideas that then get presented to you, Squirrel.  Meaning that more experienced players being involved in that testing would be a good idea.
[07:49] <@dpenguins> agreed. some of the mods are new to the game or haven't played a full round in recent history
[07:49] <+Tortoise> Most of the mod team has little experience ingame when it comes to attacking, leading, SS, or hardcore and I think it has caused a lot of bad changes and bad galaxy setups the last few years.
[07:50] <@dpenguins> they more or less just act as forum mods but have more power
03[07:50] * Thor ([email protected]) has joined #Meeting
[07:51] <&Squirrel> So this extended testing would be a boon then
[07:52] <+Tortoise> Correct.
[07:52] <@dpenguins> i believe it would help a lot
[07:52] <@dpenguins> and make people who have been here forever feel more heard
[07:52] <@dpenguins> so happier community tongue
[07:53] <@dpenguins> which in turn would make the game more welcoming to new players
[07:53] <+Tortoise> It also depends on the people that are included though =P
[07:53] <@dpenguins> well yea
[07:54] <@dpenguins> so we'd have to come up with a group of people who knew most about gameplay
[07:54] <+Tortoise> Although to be honest, Squirrel, I'm not sure any of it will help at all till the ability to attack using mobile phones is fixed.
03[07:55] * dpenguins sets mode: +v Thor
[07:55] <+Thor> ty pengy
[07:55] <@dpenguins> no problem
[07:56] <+Thor> I'm not sure how much extended testing will help, a select group will always give a limited platform base
[07:56] <+Thor> though I agree that a larger testing base would help reduce platform specific issues
[07:57] <@dpenguins> it depends who is testing too. nolio cant attack his way out of a paper bag
[07:57] <+Tortoise> The biggest part that extended testing and effectively recruiting the proper help for it would be to provide experience from all aspects of the game, Thor.
[07:57] <@dpenguins> hmm crap hes not here
[07:58] <+Tortoise> Like I specifically mentioned earlier, Current mod experience is very limitted in the departments of Attacking, Leading, SS, and hardcore.
[07:59] <+Tortoise> Basically all the current opinions coming from testing are from Bankers, people who may have done other roles 8 years ago, and one who hasn't played an actual IC round in 6 years
[07:59] <+Thor> but  what I'm saying is that we have what a dozen mods and fmods, we do a lot of testing on new stuff
[07:59] <&Squirrel> I get the feeling we are stuck on a topic here
[07:59] <+Thor> however that is a very limited platform base
[07:59] <+Tortoise> Yes but mods/forum mods who only bank.
[08:00] <+Tortoise> All of the dozen.
[08:00] <+Tortoise> You are the only to have led a fam in the last 5 years.  Final Doom the only to have attacked.  None who have effectively played hardcore or S/S.
[08:00] <+Tortoise> Except Torqez^
[08:01] <+Thor> I did very well in SN last round
[08:01] <@dpenguins> so a more diversified testing group would be beneficial
[08:01] <@dpenguins> well let's not get into personal statements tongue
[08:01] <@dpenguins> that's not helpful
[08:02] <+Tortoise> Also, Sentinel Tag should be removed
[08:02] <@dpenguins> but can we agree that a larger and more diversified testing group would help implement change
[08:02] <+Thor> yes, I agree with a larger testing group, in order to maximize platform exposure
[08:02] <@dpenguins> good ;D
[08:02] <+Tortoise> There was a more effective idea than Sentinel Tag to solve the same issue before sentinel was introduced but it was ignored.
[08:03] <+Tortoise> Sentinel is good during expo phase but also easily abused during that time.
[08:03] <+Thor> I don't think I was playing at that time
03[08:03] * dpenguins sets mode: +v M1ke
[08:04] <+Tortoise> But after expo phase it is effectively useless with the penalty
[08:04] <+Tortoise> and smaller family sizes mean less people who can use it.
[08:04] <+M1ke> tortoise there are alot of good idea's in the idea section, unfortunatly most of them get ignored due to the pretty big list of bugs currently in the game
[08:06] <+Thor> there are a  lot of good ideas, and a lot of people trying to make their style of play more powerful then the others
[08:06] <+M1ke> true, but the idea section on the forum feels unused to me, you have ppl or mods saying good idea/bad idea, but after that nothing happens
[08:06] <+Thor> sometimes it can be hard to sort which is which ... balanced and benificial vs overbalancing
[08:07] <+M1ke> well it won't hurt us to test them all, would it? tongue
[08:08] <@dpenguins> so we are over the hour but so far it seems we all agree a larger diversified testing group would be beneficial before implementing gameplay changes.  we are not going to get to everything in an hour.  perhaps if we could have more one hour meetings once a week or bi monthly that would help and then we could make each meeting topic specific
[08:08] <@dpenguins> rather than try to cram everything into an hour
[08:08] <@dpenguins> if you would be agreeable to that squirrel
[08:09] <@dpenguins> based on your availability of course
[08:09] <&Squirrel> Well, I was actually late, so you have a bit more time
[08:09] <&Final_Doom> ^
[08:09] <&Final_Doom> smile
[08:09] <@dpenguins> hhaha
[08:09] <&Squirrel> I am open to more meetings, yes
[08:10] <@dpenguins> thanks big_smile  it was a pretty weak turnout but i think that's because only american players have good ideas and some of them are still sleeping
[08:11] <+Thor> well it is 8 AM on a sunday on the west coast
[08:14] <@dpenguins> so we sort of agreed on one thing
[08:14] <@dpenguins> thats a start!
[08:14] <&Final_Doom> yep  still time tho     
[08:14] <+Thor> before we get too far away from a larger testing base ... I think having a group of players for a testing base could expose potential abuses to game changes as well
[08:15] <@dpenguins> well there is always a concern for abuse
[08:16] <@dpenguins> picking the right people would be essential
[08:17] <+M1ke> or you could pick the biggest abusers out there, as long as they report every bug they find tongue
[08:17] <+Thor> ^^ right
[08:17] <@dpenguins> there ya go haha
[08:19] <@dpenguins> another quick issue is the lack of developers.  pie used to do a lot to fix bugs etc but unfortunately had to leavee
03[08:20] * vindicators ([email protected]) has joined #Meeting
[08:20] <@dpenguins> if squirrel or the mod team could help find more players to help develop and fix bugs that would be helpful
[08:20] <@dpenguins> since torqez is pretty overworked haha
[08:21] <@dpenguins> theres gotta be more computer geeks in the community that would be able to help fix minor things and leave the bigger planning to squirrel and torq
[08:21] <+M1ke> Yeah, its a big issue imo
[08:21] <+Tortoise> The issue with that is most of those cannot be trusted =P
[08:21] <@dpenguins> well yea
[08:21] <@dpenguins> you wouldnt pick moulandrix for example
[08:21] <+Tortoise> And end up either screwing up stuff while testing it or abusing errors and ruining rounds.
[08:22] <@dpenguins> oh i thought you meant abusing things
[08:22] <@dpenguins> oh you did
[08:22] <@dpenguins> i only read half your sentence
[08:23] <@dpenguins> i think walking corpse would be helpful but hes not around much anymore
[08:24] <@dpenguins> although hes been around more lately now that hes in america and has internet access
[08:25] <@dpenguins> but yea if you guys could find trustworthy people to help stefan and torq fix the minor things that would be helpful to let them do bigger planning/gameplay issues
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03[08:26] * ChanServ sets mode: +oa Nolio Nolio
[08:27] <@dpenguins> morning sweetheart
[08:27] <@dpenguins> youre late
[08:27] <&Nolio> I'm never late!
[08:28] <@dpenguins> haha
[08:28] <+Thor> I'm pretty computer savy, but unfortunately unfamiliar with java and php
[08:29] <+Thor> I think perl was the last languange I learned to program in
[08:31] <+Skyroshroud> [23:27] <&Nolio> I'm never late!
[08:31] <+Skyroshroud> he was here all along
[08:32] <+Thor> well, time for me to get ready for work.  ty for you time pengy and squirrel
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Davelot, is that you?

The great cape crusader lol I'm alright buddy, where have you been all this time? Hope it's all good I haven't really played in about a year or so, but I always stick around in chat and such anyway.

Now go find us a Disektor to play with

Genesis, you seem to have about 1513 tag points too many

Give it a shot now mate, stefan has made some changes for mobile sidebar and map, send to work well for me now