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Imperial Forum → Politics → Justinian I call thee outeth!
Converting? I saw him arguing for freedom, which can empirically be shown to result in more production and standard of living.
I missed the part where this was somehow closer than previously ("converting") to your position that there should be bedroom police and others to prevent you from doing things with your own body.
Flint,
Nope. Lets use Rome as an example. During the late Republic, the ruling elite were obscenely oppressive. For example, they literally seized the property of middle-class landowners, turning them in to massive estates operated by slaves. Additionally, the tax system was obscenely corrupt. Tax collection was contracted to individuals with the coin to pay for the rights, and the collectors were permitted to profit from the taxes that exceeded the amounts officials estimated could be collected in a given district. This gave the tax collectors incentive to squeeze the people of all the money they could, and they were deeply hated for it. On the other hand, politicians profited from the scheme, and Caesar's desire to replace tax collection with a bureaucratic system is partly what got him assassinated.
When Augustus Caesar ascended to power, his autocratic government was better than the late Republic. He established a bureaucratic system for tax collection, generally complied with the rule of law, invested in public goods, and under his reign the Empire prospered with a remarkable amount of free enterprise. Augustus' reign was consequently very liberal, while the Republic preceding him was very illiberal.
LP,
By civil rights I meant the rights in the constitution. Today, the government can detain you indefinitely without charging you with a crime. Moreover, Asset Forfeiture laws permit the police to seize your cash and other valuables if they see them after they pull you over, under the guise that it's "drug money," and still not charge you with a crime either.
That doesn't mean I believe in natural rights. I just want my 4th and 5th amendment rights protected.
Justinian modern Republics, not the crap tard excuses.
You die today, in twenty years you aare born again through reincarnation. Which type of Government do you choose?
@justinian:
I never defended natural rights -whatever that means- like many anarchists do. My only point of debate was civil rights make for a more effective and productive econ and society.
LP,
Eh, ok. I don't think I ever disagreed with that. My disagreement with the conventional thought towards rights has been and continues to be the claim that rights are moral guarantees. I always had a pragmatist position towards them.
Flint,
That's not an informative question. It's like asking me to choose the life of the person behind the left door or the person behind the right door. As I have already stated, form does not cause liberality. There have been liberal autocracies in history, the most successful and long-lasting was during Rome's period called the "Five Good Emperors (each successor to the throne was chosen by merit)." Moreover, the majority of democracies, broadly speaking to include republics, are illiberal.
Concluding Statements:
1. Most democracies, oligarchies and autocracies are illiberal.
2. A government's form does not cause it to be liberal.
So because of (1) and (2), your question isn't informative. I may as well toss a coin.
What is Informative:
Better Predictor of Liberality:
1. Western states and Japan are the best known liberal democracies. Indeed, they account for the majority of liberal democracies. But there are many other democracies in the present day, and the majority of them are illiberal.
2. What the Western states and Japan have in common is a high standard of living, as a result of being wealthier. Of course, you could argue that their wealth resulted from liberal democracy. While liberal democracy may have made them wealthier, the fact is that the traditional nobility wasn't overthrown until a middle class developed.
So rather than ask me what country I would like to be born in to based on government type, it would be more informative to ask me to decide based on GDP per capita.
No you don't get away that easy.
No gdp choices.
You can be randomly born into one of these:
Modern Republic
Modern Democracy
Theocracy
Minarchy
Socialist State
Monarchy
Tyranny
Tribe
That should cover all existing Governments at this point.
To head off questions the Minarchy is Somalia...
Since you insist, I'll go with Somalia. My reasoning is that although Somalia is ruled by competing mafia-like warlords, at least the mafia does what you pay them to do. That, and Somalia has plenty of opportunity 
.
This is possibly the one and only time I will ever hear someone prefer living in Somalia as opposed to any other place in the world. Another "must frame this post" event.
Maybe Tribe.
Then I'll have an excuse to do nothing but weed and beer all day.
Whar Do I Sine Up!?
Imperial Forum → Politics → Justinian I call thee outeth!
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