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Imperial Forum → Politics → My Problem with Obama (a Euro perspective)
He's just jealous that the US has better medical care available to the common man than he can ever hope to see in his country. And he's mad about it. Don't upset him: he's not above lying about it.
Those statistics are fundamentally flawed
They account for those with medical insurance who apply for procedures, what about the millions with no insurance in America?
In England we also have private medical health, 95% of people with private medical care have their procedures within six months.
What we have in England is provision for those who cannot afford medical care, is it perfect? No, is it better then nothing? Most definatly.
I am not against private medical care, I have it, I can afford it (teachers are well paid in the UK) however if I lost my job and couldnt afford to go private I know that if I had a life threatening condition I could be seen within the hour at my local NHS hospital.
If it was something non life threatening I would at least know I had a chance of being seen rather then no hope.
I dont think Obama was actually trying to replace private health care, merely provide for those who cannot afford it.
If you have private medical care it will not affect you, you will still get the best treatment, what no American has ever done is explain why adding an additional layer of care for the poor in your country makes Obama evil?
I am addressing this at Avagardo, I have been informed the best way to deal with Kemp is just to ignore his whining.
Where did it say it was limited to those with medical insurance? Anybody can have life-saving surgery in America, we just bill them for it too. That was a serious misstatement our of policy.
Also I have repeatedly posted the story of the guy denied corrective surgery on his arm, because he smokes, which poses no threat at all. There are medications that control blood pressure for the few hours needed for a surgery. That's your system, not the American one. If that plumber were American and got denied for those BS reasons he'd retire on the settlement.
Oh and Obamacare says starting in 2014, all Americans must have Govt Basic plan, through a private insurer. This means if you are a single man, you must buy an insurance plan that has child care and gynecological exams figured into the premiums. You MAY NOT skimp on the Minimum Required Coverage to save money just because you do not have reproductive organs. And women have to pay based on the calcualtion that 1 in 3 men get prostate cancer.
No ifs. No ands. No buts. You must pay the minimum premium for the Obama Approved plan, at least $1500, whether you get sick or not. If you dont, you owe the IRS $1500. We're promised that will not earn penalties and fines and criminal charges if you refuse to pay it...for now...adn that promise can be revoked at will. All they say now is that your unpaid fee/penalty/tax (depends who they're talking to, what they call it) will be applied to any refund you would get.
Now how can private insurers make money when they must accept all new patients for a government declared fee? FU says Obama. We all know what's next, and Democrats have said so in their forums: all private nsurance goes broke, and the State is the only insurer left because it can lose money forever. Its called the death spiral. It happened in TN and MA. it will happen through thte whole USA.
When there's only govt insurance...and it wont cover everything...and punishes peopel who choose not to buy it and pay for something better for their families...that is evil. Not to mention it pays for abortion.
your argument ignores one of the statistics: "Percentage of seniors (65 and older) with low income who say they are in
> Chris_Balsz wrote:
> Where did it say it was limited to those with medical insurance? Anybody can have life-saving surgery in America, we just bill them for it too. That was a serious misstatement our of policy.
You can have life-saving surgery, but you get billed for it. If there's no possible way a person can afford that bill, then they can't take up the cost, and thus can't be diagnosed in the first place, and subsequently receive the care. Although the statistic is interesting, it leaves out those who are deterred from stepping into the hospital in the first place.
If there's no possible way a person can afford that bill, then they can't take up the cost, and thus can't be diagnosed in the first place, and subsequently receive the care. Although the statistic is interesting, it leaves out those who are deterred from stepping into the hospital in the first place.<<
Um only in hospitals that are run by Michelle Obama... haw haw.
Dude, you seriously think a doctor sees a guy with a lethal $1m condition, and thinks "screw him, he's only good for $1500...throw him back to the gutter"
what do you think he'd die of?
and what do you think the autopsy would show?
And do you think the family might say, "wow, odd, uncle frank was at Protestant Asshole Memorial and they said he was fine jsut before he died"
you think maybe they'd sue the hospital's ass off? cheaper to give the guy $998,500 in free care and get publicity by announcing the dramatic mercy rescue
http://media.hotair.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/o-sarkozy.jpg
"Heil Oba-"
"No! Not in public! Not yet"
Fair play that made me laugh......a lot - I mean my wife just stared at me in confusion
Bless Sarkozy
>>They account for those with medical insurance who apply for procedures, what about the millions with no insurance in America?<<
They account for the whole population. So your statement is inaccurate, ie wrong. For the millions without insurance, there are programs available for the poor. That's why tens of millions of people enter the country illegally to abuse our out of control government entitlements. They don't flock here because we're uncompassionate to the poor. And the care available to the poor in the USA is superior to superior to that of countries with completely socialized medicine because the rest of the country contributes money to medical advancements (we reward those who make things that make our lives better) without the drain of huge government overheard and misdirection of funds that results from government, not the free market, making reward decisions.
And I take offense at the implication that socialized medical care is somehow more human because it offers "care" to "all." It doesn't offer all care to everyone. The claim that all treatment options are available to all patients is completely ignorant bullshit. That would bankrupt any system. Expensive treatments are denied, delayed and rationed, and lying about it doesn't change the fact.
>>In England we also have private medical health, 95% of people with private medical care have their procedures within six months.<<
Thank you for supporting my position. If I was going to have to wait 6 months for care in the USA, I'd change my healthcare provider. In England, your ability to choose this option is further hindered by how much you're taxed to support socialized inferior care.
>>I dont think Obama was actually trying to replace private health care, merely provide for those who cannot afford it.<<
Then why does everyone (the numbers are in now: literlally, everyone, including obama) agree that it will raise healthcare premiums? You're claiming that Obama is raising healthcare costs in order to provide for those who cannot afford it. That's ridiculous.
>>If you have private medical care it will not affect you, you will still get the best treatment, what no American has ever done is explain why adding an additional layer of care for the poor in your country makes Obama evil?<<
Again your statement shows ignorance and is inaccurate. Your statement is wrong. Of course raising the price of care and taxing care more will affect those with private insurance. Obama's claims and your claim here that somehow this change will not affect people is ridiculous and wrong on the facts. Obama is taxing premium healthcare (premium being good care that is well within the means of the working). How does taxing the healthcare everyone wants significantly more (raising its price and taking it out of reach of more people) help people get the healthcare everyone wants? It doesn't. It makes it more difficult. In addition to taxing desirable healthcare significantly more, Obama's changes will increase the cost of healthcare premiums across the board, further making it more difficult to aquire decent healthcare.
>>I am addressing this at Avagardo, I have been informed the best way to deal with Kemp is just to ignore his whining.<<
As always, I respond to your content without the crying. When you continually ignore posts that embarrass you, the only one you're embarrassing even more is yourself. If you had any self respect you would respond to the arguments that you don't have an easy response to or stop posting about positions you're incapable of defending. Your appeal to authority is as senseless as your ad-hominem attacks. Only people who would flame like you are here would support your notion that this fallacy somehow makes your position less laughable. And only awkward children do that. I'm sure they all agree with you. Everyone else is embarrassed this sort of conduct. I'll keep responding to the content, because the only way I can fight this embarrassing behavior is by example. Keep crying. Your tears give me strength.
Don't forget that you'll be paying for viagra, birth control pills, and abortions too under Obamacare, Chris_Balsz. Okay, I don't want to know your response to the viagra bit, but at least you have the comfort of knowing your dollars are killing the kids of unwanting mothers.
i said I consider that evil...and if the Republicans are so corrupt they'd keep the mandate, I'll change my withholding to $0 and refuse to pay.
one thing that most euro's don't understand about American politics is that behind closed doors it's just like wrestlers on TV the sit back and think well how are we going to screw the American people today.
in europe.... you guys got screwed as soon as they made the euro... HA HA HA.
and at least we can shoot them (politicians) if they get too far out of line... the best you guys can do (to royalty) is make them stay in a mansion till they grow old.
primae noctis could so fix this problem
Meh, I still find it shocking to be honest.
One of the things I like about America is its apparent togetherness, the patriotic us vs the world attitude.
It doesnt seem to fit with "I aint paying an extra ten dollars a year so some poor ass unemployed scum can get access to medical health care! Thats what a Commie Hitler would propose!"
Yet I spose its a simple fact of upbringing, no Englishmen of my generation would accept the UK going private only and not many Americans of Kemps generation would accept free health care for the poor.
That said I think if Obama offered each individual a blowjob from a super model of their choice their are some on here who would claim it was a leftie plot of some sort!
khaz must now be selectively reading or something....
EVERYONE IN THE US CAN GET MEDICAL CARE REGARDLESS OF HOW POOR THEY ARE.... STOP CLAIMING THEY CAN'T.
Yes they have the choice between massive debt or just getting on with it.
If you are in a position to afford medical then brilliant, I go private as I feel I have worked for it.
If I was poor though, its nice to know we can go to hospital for the birth of my child without having $150,000 bill
lol, $150,000 for baby delivery.... lol at british propaganda....
if you are poor you can rack up millions of dollars of medical expenses and never have to pay a cent of it... and baby delivering with zero insurance would cost more like $5k in a hospital in the US, not $150,000.... also, baby delivery is pretty expected, you could have just gotten insurance before the birth and paid a fraction of that $5k...
Im basing this on a friends account of how his wife had complications and infection after pregnancy.
150,000 bill that his insurance apparently didnt cover (yes his fault maybe for not reading the small print)
I am not arguing private is better, it clearly is, my problem though is if someone cannot afford insurance or at least good insurance they can end up being bankrupted due to falling ill.
I pay national insurance as well as my private medical care and I dont mind. I make payments each month to cover hospitals, police, fire etc I dont mind, I can afford it.
If i lose my job I am not expected to keep up my national insurance payment but I am then still covered for ALL illnesses on NHS.
I like the additional level of security - I cannot understand the fear and paranoia from the press in the States. I saw articles showing Obama as both a communist and a nazi all because he was trying to help the millions of Americans currently with no health cover.
typically what happens is you give the hospital your insurance info, and then they will tell you if anything they want to do isnt covered before they do it; i dont see how they would do a treatment that wasnt covered by insurance that your friend wouldnt know isnt covered by his insurance before they did it...
>>I like the additional level of security - I cannot understand the fear and paranoia from the press in the States. I saw articles showing Obama as both a communist and a nazi all because he was trying to help the millions of Americans currently with no health cover.<<
1. It wont cover everything. Bureaucrats will draw up limits based on cost vs factors like the probable quality of age factors. Obama himself cited his bedridden old grandma getting a new hip as an example of waste! can you say "DEATH PANELS"
2. You must buy the insurance like it or not, which is unprecedented. It is too frickin bad that the President feels insulted to be compared to dictators-- fine then Il Douche let me decline to participate in your Utopia.
3. Not having health coverage does not mean lack of access to health care, as has been explained to you. The "problem" Obama is "solving" is that he wants for-profit insurers to fail first before the government installs single-payer and curtails service.
Obama is forcing us into a darker future where everybody will throw more and more of their wages to insurance, and chronically ill people will be denied coverage. There is NOTHING good about it.
"There is NOTHING good about it."
I agree with that.
Its not like the rich are going to pay for the poor health care cause they can not afford any. Its every American that pays via a corrupt system an industry with strong political ties shitloads of money. Then, with a little luck not all necessary treatments will be denied.
Its more then a joke. And he gets away with it...again.
i had to go in today for a cold, I made an appt a week ago and this was the first slot I could get
when I signed in to the county facility I had to give a proof of residency in this county and proof of income
they figure with my gross of $2800/month I would pay 100% of all charges. "you know this is gonna be more than the $50 copay?" the nurse asked "well they didn't tell me how much" so she looked nervous. I figued wth if it was under $700 it was cheaper than going to the ER
I told them I had recurrent sore throat and fever, pain in abdomen, fatigue and now intense night sweats
they said I should definitely get a TB skin test
they would start me on antibiotics...then she said they could do a throat culture to find out what's wrong with my throat...then she stopped and said I could skip that and save me some money, and only do it if antibiotics didn't kill my symptoms. greaaatttt
so I go up front and they figure my bill, at 100% of treatment, was ... $121. I was told $50 and they'd see if I qualified but I guess I don't.
My antibiotics were $14.95 at RiteAid.
So for a 1 week wait I paid $135 for treating a 2 month infection of some sort. We'll see if I have TB...
this is the "horror" of not having insurance in America. Il Duce, deliver your people! O FATHER TO US ALL! /genuflect weeping
fyi, the healthcare bill that passed in the US does not allow you to pay for additional care if you can afford it. there is a committee thats goal is to lower money spent on medical care and who sets efficiency standards, if a doctor does not follow those standards, even if the individual pays for it and not his health insurance, no health care provider receiving any government funding can pay for any care for any person that goes to that doctor. So individuals will not be able to find doctors willing to provide the best treatment available, even if the individuals are willing to pocket the entire bill themselves.
but remember-- enforcing residency requirements on 11 million illegal aliens would cost too much and destroy the fabric of our society!
give it up, we don't have a 2 party system, we have people that take on different roles to commit the same end, the rich get richer, and the poor become slaves to them.
lol, poor, niave, born2bwild....
ok, slaves.... what does born mean by that? are the poor forced to make the rich richer? no, the poor typically cost society, including the rich, money. they have no job and rely on charity for food, shelter, and they are unable to pay for the medical care they receive. the only people that could be argued to make the rich richer are the rich, the middle class, and the working classes.
first lets point out that wealth isn't finite. there isn't a definite amount of wealth and the rich are not ah hah! we increased the percent of wealth we have by taking more from the poor. every time someone increases efficiency, they are creating more wealth. when the same work can be accomplished through lower cost, cost becomes more valuable because more can be done with it. so every improvement to every industry generates wealth. who increases efficiency? typically the middle and the upper class... if anything the rich and the middle are servants to the poor and working classes because the middle and rich's efforts make the poor and working classes wealthier.
Imperial Forum → Politics → My Problem with Obama (a Euro perspective)
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