1

(3 replies, posted in Politics)

Sorry to those of you that this is old news but I only just read this speech.

This is an off the cuff speech made to around 800 paratroopers getting ready to invade Iraq during the first gulf war. What made me suprised is just the different rhetoric in use between the two wars.

It is the epitome of the rallying cry I think! Please read the whole thing it is very good.

Oh for the record (not that it actually matters) The speech was made by Colonel Tim Collins of the British Army.


=======================================================================================

We go to liberate, not to conquer.
We will not fly our flags in their country
We are entering Iraq to free a people and the only flag which will be flown in that ancient land is their own.
Show respect for them.

There are some who are alive at this moment who will not be alive shortly.
Those who do not wish to go on that journey, we will not send.
As for the others, I expect you to rock their world.
Wipe them out if that is what they choose.
But if you are ferocious in battle remember to be magnanimous in victory.

Iraq is steeped in history.
It is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood and the birthplace of Abraham.
Tread lightly there.

You will see things that no man could pay to see
-- and you will have to go a long way to find a more decent, generous and upright people than the Iraqis.
You will be embarrassed by their hospitality even though they have nothing.

Don't treat them as refugees for they are in their own country.
Their children will be poor, in years to come they will know that the light of liberation in their lives was brought by you.

If there are casualties of war then remember that when they woke up and got dressed in the morning they did not plan to die this day.
Allow them dignity in death.
Bury them properly and mark their graves.

It is my foremost intention to bring every single one of you out alive.
But there may be people among us who will not see the end of this campaign.
We will put them in their sleeping bags and send them back.
There will be no time for sorrow.

The enemy should be in no doubt that we are his nemesis and that we are bringing about his rightful destruction.
There are many regional commanders who have stains on their souls and they are stoking the fires of hell for Saddam.
He and his forces will be destroyed by this coalition for what they have done.
As they die they will know their deeds have brought them to this place. Show them no pity.

It is a big step to take another human life.
It is not to be done lightly.
I know of men who have taken life needlessly in other conflicts.
I can assure you they live with the mark of Cain upon them.

If someone surrenders to you then remember they have that right in international law and ensure that one day they go home to their family.
The ones who wish to fight, well, we aim to please.

If you harm the regiment or its history by over-enthusiasm in killing or in cowardice, know it is your family who will suffer.
You will be shunned unless your conduct is of the highest -- for your deeds will follow you down through history.
We will bring shame on neither our uniform or our nation

(On Saddam's chemical and biological weapons.)

It is not a question of if, it's a question of when.
We know he has already devolved the decision to lower commanders, and that means he has already taken the decision himself.
If we survive the first strike we will survive the attack.

As for ourselves, let's bring everyone home and leave Iraq a better place for us having been there.

Our business now is north.

2

(14 replies, posted in Politics)

I genuinly think the main reason horse meat isnt on sale in the UK is that it would be one less thing to tease the french about

3

(47 replies, posted in Politics)

Germany had concentration camps that were actually seperate from the death camps.

Thats besides the point though, Britain, Japan, America and Germany have all used concentration camps in the past.

4

(14 replies, posted in Politics)

I 100% agree, it is never nice when someone dies, never a happy thing when a police officer is forced to take a life yet it was completely justified.

Rioting merely because the man who was shot was your race and the cop wasnt is not only ridiculous it shows that the hispanics rioting are racist.

Weilding a weapon, attacking people and charging police officers? What did they expect would happen? Race has nothing to do with it, common sense does!

My attitude will remain the same, if you dont respect the law of the country - get out, whether your native or immigrant. In England we have a lot of immigrants and people born and bred here that the country would be better for kicking out.

5

(47 replies, posted in Politics)

Converts get too zealous

America huge proponent of Slavery = Slaves are the most evil construct ever we would never do that
America and Britain = Inventors of the Nuclear bomb = Anyone trying to build a Nuke risks us destroying them
Britain - Largest Empire known to man = We will now complain whenever anyone else gets slightly imperialistic
America - Long term supporters of terrorism = Anyone even thinking of fighting against any form of government will be destroyed

6

(162 replies, posted in Politics)

Yes Pakistanis burning the American are pointless and stupid....Isnt that fairly self evident?

I am trying to see your point here Chris but it seems to be...um...some people do bad things so we should be allowed to do bad things too?

7

(9,083 replies, posted in General)

Has an imaginary pet monkey called Tim

8

(162 replies, posted in Politics)

^^

100% agree with that statement

My badly made point was judging a majority on a minorities actions is wrong and dangerous

9

(162 replies, posted in Politics)

More actions from the intelligent unbiased Americans tongue
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The top US commander in Afghanistan has warned that an American church's threat to burn copies of the Muslim holy book could endanger US troops and Americans worldwide.

General David Petraeus said images of burning Korans would "undoubtedly" be used by extremists to incite violence.

In an e-mail, he said this would "put our troopers and civilians in jeopardy" and undermine the mission in Afghanistan.

The Dove World Outreach Centre church in Gainesville, Florida, said it will burn Korans on church grounds to mark the September 11, 2001 terror attacks in the United States that provoked the Afghan war.

Afghans staged a protest in the capital Kabul on Monday to protest against the church's plans.

10

(47 replies, posted in Politics)

Now I dont support nor condemn the following article, I only publish it here as I know there are lots of Americans on the forum and it would be interesting to see their reaction to it.
Please note that while this is a passionate subject dont over react, the journalist says Al Quieda is barbaric, doesnt support it at all, just feels America over estimated the threat perhaps.

Newsweek article

Did America over react?

Nine years after 9/11, can anyone doubt that Al Qaeda is simply not that deadly a threat? Since that gruesome day in 2001, once governments everywhere began serious countermeasures, Osama bin Laden

11

(162 replies, posted in Politics)

Ah Israel, its like a childrens bed time story.

When Britain did not want to screw the Palestinians over and destroy the country we had created to accomadate the Jews the Jewish settlers launched a terror campaign, killing diplomats and blowing up hotels - when Britain pointed out that killing innocents was the sort of thing the Nazis had done only 3 years earlier they went running to America and demanded America take action - America threatened to recall all its aid from Britain and sign trade embargos against the Empire using its influence to make others refuse to trade with it as well (thats right, threatening to Bankrupt an ally for not giving in to terrorists)

So Britain gave the problem to the UN and said "We think it would be unfair to remove the Palestinians from their homeland but we leave it up to you" The UN then said lets cut Palestine in two, all the rich prosperous cities can go in the side of the Jewish immigrants and all the shanty towns can go in the Palestinian section, any Palestinian who refuses to leave their homes will be forced to at gun point, EVERYONE WINS!

The Palestinians thought this was mean and tried to fight back, but the western world branded them terrorists and when Palestines allys tried to help they did a pretty lousy job, in revenge Israel said " we will now take even more land off you!"

This made America and the UN angry as it looked bad on them but Israel told them to keep their noses out of it, and so they did. The End.

12

(33 replies, posted in Politics)

France surrendering to an ally could be a tad cringe worthy I guess tongue

13

(27 replies, posted in Politics)

hehehe Napolean - Minister for equal heights

14

(33 replies, posted in Politics)

The Eastern Bloc countries can provide a combined total of 1 million men at arms, the economic gains made of a union could equip them with up to date military hardware, combine that with the nukes and military of UK and France etc you end up with a confederacy with a strong Air Force, Navy, More then a million front line soldiers, Nuclear weapons and an economy to back it up.

I also wasnt claiming this would happen, I tink the union would tear itself apart with Germany, France and UK all trying to claim top spot.

Also I maintain that America is no longer a super power, it is still a major world power but one of several/many. The 1979 recession was different, the Cold War was still in full swing and a healthy dose of paranoia is good for a country. Since the fall of the USSR America has sat back content it is the only world super power but when it is called to action to back up those claims it struggles - Afghanistan has been a disaster, the refusal to stand up to North Korea, Russia and Iran has been notable.

The hardware may still be there but America the nation is no longer willing to use it - a muscley man who refuses to throw a punch wont win many fights tongue

15

(33 replies, posted in Politics)

The EU is improving ties within the union, we could possibly end up as a loose collection or the United States of Europe, the economic, military might of such a Union would make it the strongest power, yet in fighting would eventually tear it apart, America is no longer a super power - we will never see another Cuban Missile Crisis as America would likely back down.

China is not yet ready to be called a super power and Russia is too broke.

We all remain powers of a sort, but the age of the super power is passed, imperialism, empires, super powers have all ended - I am not sure what we will get next.

16

(33 replies, posted in Politics)

I was actually suprised by the lack of western reaction to the invasion of Georgia - lots of stern words and hints that we might one day think about sanctions.

Yet that is the world we live in, Britain has long since stopped being a super power, heck we are barely holding on to being classed as a power at all in the eyes of the world - brilliant soldiers, just a tiny number of them.

Yet we have a modern Navy, a good RAF, good soldiers and estimated 270 nuclear missiles - the fact that despite this we are not a big player any more speaks wonders about the modern world. The super powers can no longer push smaller powers around - power is balancing out.

Who would win between America and CHina? EU and Russia? The answer is no longer clear however the world would probably never recover from such wars.

America and Britain invaded Afghanistan with hundreds of thousands of troops and enough military hardware to melt the country yet our casualties are rising and we are now withdrawing and talking about putting the Taliban in a coalition government - FFS could you imagine if we had done that with the Nazis? (oh and before anyone says the Taliban aint as bad as the Nazis it is merely because they havent had the equipment to build the 'showers' yet)

N. Korea sank a warship of one of our allies and S. Korea was persuaded not to retaliate by the west as a war would be too costly.

It is murkier in Iran at the moment (as I dont think Nuclear powers have the right to criticize others for wanting Nuclear weapons) but the fact is we had hundreds of thousands of troops by the Iranian border - they still felt they could develop the Nuclear technology with no fear of reprisal - Iraqs military was a joke which is why we were able to win, not because we were mighty. Hell their idea of a defense for Bagdhad was to light fires around the outskirts of the city to scare off the approaching armies - in other words medieval battle tactics!

No country can afford to strut and order others around anymore, no country has the strength to ensure victory in any war it seems these days.

17

(27 replies, posted in Politics)

Minister of Rap - Stephen Hawking

18

(33 replies, posted in Politics)

> Justinian I wrote:

> "Overthrow the government? Our population is full of weaklings. If we had a military dictator, they would roll over and worship him if that was demanded."

Isnt it in the constitution that it is the duty of the people to overthrow the government if it no longer represents the will of the people?

19

(162 replies, posted in Politics)

Israel is hardley blameless, shooting children in the street for throwing stones is not nice tongue

20

(956 replies, posted in General)

hmmmm I will go for a wild card

Einstein!

21

(65 replies, posted in General)

Zinedine Zidane > Pele

22

(162 replies, posted in Politics)

You cannot state for a fact that it is a victory Mosque, if it was a fact then this conversation would not be raging. What is a fact is that many people in the US have mistreated Muslims since 9/11. Mosques have been attcked, businesses boycotted etc - The intention of this Cordoba learning institute was to help put a stop to this.

It is a fact that the people building this Mosque claimed it was to spread understanding (I am not a mind reader and i assume you are not either Kemp so claiming they are lying is guess work at best) they were granted permission by New York City and given the blessing of the President, subsequently a shit storm has kicked up over people believing what Kemp does - The Muslims deny it is a victory Mosque and do not wish to be bullied out of building their mosque and I applaud them, standing up to tyrrany and mob justice is more American then screaming racism and not reading facts.

This is the fault of the media and people like Kemp (who will now call me a troll, his fave word) - The car bomb that was detected and disarmed in New York a couple of months ago was discovered by a Somali Muslim immigrant who notified the police (this last detail was omited from the reports) yet if a Muslim sneezes and forgets to say bless me then fox news does rolling ticker tape news on it for 24 hours.

This was a chance to turn a corner for America and instead of reporting that a "cultural learning centre built to help heal the wounds of the 11/9 tragedy and spread the true message of Islam" it was reported "MUSLIM VICTORY MOSQUE DEFILES GROUND ZERO"

This will be my final post on the topic as Kemp is merely trolling old points and shouting them louder when questioned - it is similar to the parable of the gardener by John Wisdom (look it up) Kemp will never accept it is not a victory Mosque and I will never accept it IS until evidence is provided that is more then "Their Imam once dared to question American foreign policy therefore they are terrorists!"

Asking you to provide actual evidence is not trolling, you have provided opinion with half truths shouted until you believe it has become a fact.

Fact - you bore me, if you require evidence to this FACT, I will be willing to email you a picture of me yawning while reading your posts.

23

(162 replies, posted in Politics)

lol difference is Phillip would do it for shits an giggles

Charles would sadly be serious

24

(956 replies, posted in General)

Nope

dbudd

25

(956 replies, posted in General)

Yay you got it right *checks* wait, im not penguins....oops!

erm.......

Godwin!