2,101 Reply by ☭ Fokker

(132 replies, posted in Politics)

> joe4444 wrote:

> As someone who firmly believe there should NEVER be a woman president, I am quite disturbed at the recent trend in America.  Right now, we face the fear of that very thing happening.  As a lifelong Democrat, I maybe forced to vote for the pro-war McCain, something I would despise myself horribly for doing, if Hillary Clinton runs.

Its not that I think Hillary has bad views.  Its not that I dont think she'll be good for the economy, for universal health care, for foreign policy, or anything else.  But what happened to the traditional American housewife?  The Biblical morals are going down the drain for a secular view of "whats right." 

What America needs is two presidents: Mike Huckabee for the social issues, and John Edwards for everything else.  But with what we have right now, I continue to feel like Barack Obama is our last hope to save us from having a woman run for president from the party that is increasingly trying to alienate the Christian vote.



I am now quite convinced that the personality we associate with the nickname Joe4444 is a put on, a long standing joke, a way for an attention seeking child or a sad individual with very little control over their own life to get people to dance to their tune for their own amusement.

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2,102 Reply by ☭ Fokker

(38 replies, posted in Politics)

Good question!
The Lion's problem is this: It's entire body is built to do one thing and one thing only, and that thing is kill. Even if the Lion had the mental capacity to learn how to make fire, or even make a pointy stick, how would it do it?

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2,103 Reply by ☭ Fokker

(10 replies, posted in Politics)

Thanks Ehawk. Now let's get to the petty bickering!

1. Ability to reason.

No argument here.


2. Communication.

Yup.


3. Hands will have the ability to make tools

I think "appendages" would be a better term, it doesn't take me much imagination to imagine typing with Squid tentacles (But I am a two-fingered typist) and gripping certainly wont be a problem. Aside from that, no argument from me.


4. Omnivors

How does what they eat figure into this? If I had to decide wether something was sentient or intelligent my decision would not be swayed by its diet, be it bananas or babies.


5. Sex for plasure

I can see how a rigid mating pattern could cause US some problems, but I dont see it affecting our sentience/intelligence?


6. Animal Husbandry

Advantageous, certainly. Neccesary? No.


7. Religion or an idea of God

So Spock isn't sentient? I think you strayed into the realm of personal preference with this one. I don't see how not having a religion or theistic concept would make something not sentient/intelligent, but then again I am an Atheist.


8. Politics

I think I know what you mean on this one, you are referring to social structure, hierarchy, systems to ensure criminal punishment/social security etc. It would make it easier for us to get along with these theoretical aliens if they had a Political system, but neccessary for them to be classed as sentient? No.


9. Ability to dream(not sleeping, but in the sense of dreaming of better life i.e: "American dream"

Ideals and desires, right? I don't think any Human can really argue for this one either way, our very nature makes us biased AND unable to contemplate a life without dreams and desires. Unless you have ever been psychologically broken, or lived in a situation where you live day to day, having given up on the self-torture of dreams, I dont think... hmm...
I dont think this should be included, not because I disagree but because I cannot balance it, my very DNA gives me bias.... damn this one's hard! smile

10. Walking upright may cause dignity in the sense of civilized nature(not proven but something to think about)

Cute.
No.
Ok, ok: No because life on other worlds will have followed a very different path of evolution. What if we are talking about Gas-Bags, or Aquatic based creatures? What if they evolved from slugs or snakes? Not only is this requirement unfair, it's verging on racism.

Compared to this deciding wether somethingis alive or not is relatively easy. Don't take any of my answers as absolute or final; I will be thinking about this for some time.

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2,104 Reply by ☭ Fokker

(38 replies, posted in Politics)

> Ehawk wrote:

> oh, i thought it would be a good way to summarize the evolutionary traits of humans by assuming the all sentient life will universally have the same cercumstances to become dominant.

every reason all of us gave that may be a turning point is very good.  i think that no life universally can become sentient with out those characteristic, especially communication.

I would like to ask a few questions regarding this, specifically the list. Could you open a thread, pleebs?

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2,105 Topic by ☭ Fokker

(5 replies, posted in Politics)

The following link will take you to an 11 minute video, taken from American Public Broadcasting I think, featuring Matt Dillahunty responding to a Christian callers claim that it takes more faith to be an Atheist than it does to be a Theist.
The end portion of the video should feel very familiar to regular Politcis Forum users.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs3RKZjSzYg

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2,106 Reply by ☭ Fokker

(38 replies, posted in Politics)

> Black_Wing wrote:

> Look At My Balls !!!

Look !!!!!!



ROFLMAO....you sick bastard.


WINNAR! I've had that thing in my sig for a week now, you're the first person to notice. big_smile
_______________________________________________________________________________

"what do you mean "off topic" i thought we are discussing human evolution and the key point of our eventual dominance."

We are, what I was referring to by saying "off topic" was the part about aliens needing to have certain characteristsics in order to be classed as intelligent. This is off the topic of what was the turning point in human evolution.

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2,107 Reply by ☭ Fokker

(19 replies, posted in Politics)

> Han wrote:

> Let me be the first to say the judges are leftist and biased that why BW won't win..

I think Black Wing will win.

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2,108 Reply by ☭ Fokker

(3 replies, posted in General)

When I watched the first video, the fight scene, I thought it was going to be yet another one of those French accidental time-travelling hi-jinx movies. Then I watched the trailer and stopped being interested.

Sorry if that makes me a phillistine, but those are the only kinds of euro films I like. And Dobermann. Oooh, and that german one where there's a car chase and this guy on a bridge drops an anchor which hooks the police car and sends it flying big_smile That was awesome.

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2,109 Reply by ☭ Fokker

(75 replies, posted in General)

It always amuses me when Americans try to tell people what makes a good beer, and then in the same breath openly admit that their country makes nothing but horse-piss.

My country makes crap lager, but we do quite well with ale and bitter... sorry about Mild, I don't know what we were thinking. Sorry.

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2,110 Reply by ☭ Fokker

(38 replies, posted in Politics)

> Ehawk wrote:

> Dolphins can reason. not to the ability of humans but they can reason better than chimps

i think we can alll agree that if there was a "turning point" reasoning played a large role.  now lets put "reasoning" on a scale! while human are 100% reasoning and bacteria is at 0%, the dog may be at 50% then we can place the dolphin at 80%.

<At this point you swing wildly off topic. Perhaps you would like to start your own thread?>

Now lets travel to the "imaginary" planet somwhere in our great galaxy.  Assuming that there is intelligent life out there on the level of humans, they must posess a few characteristics:

1. Ability to reason.
2. Communication.
3. Hands will have the ability to make tools
4. Omnivors
5. Sex for plasure
6. Animal Husbandry
7. Religion or an idea of God
8. Politics
9. Ability to dream(not sleeping, but in the sense of dreaming of better life i.e: "American dream"
10. Walking upright may cause dignity in the sense of civilized nature(not proven but something to think about)

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2,111 Reply by &#9773; Fokker

(38 replies, posted in Politics)

Theodora, why didn't you just say my analogy was a bad one? Or do you genuinely believe that only humans are capable of reasoning?
Or is it that you have confused basic and higher reasoning?

@fokker

I did...a number of times tongue


My personal beliefs are hardly relevant since I'm a neutral party in this discussion. I was simply telling you your reasoning was  flawed tongue

I have confused nothing. But perhaps you have confused what the OP was talking about smile

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2,112 Reply by &#9773; Fokker

(48 replies, posted in General)

"I told you it wouldn't work"

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2,113 Reply by &#9773; Fokker

(38 replies, posted in Politics)

> Theodora wrote:

> @Fokker

You dog example doesn't really entail any reasoning.

The dog reasons that if it craps in the house it will get a good kicking from an animal ten times it's size. Maybe our understanding of the word Reason differs?

> The big man wrote:

> and marijuana...

The Incas and the Aztecs didn't strike me as particularly stupid. Or the Hasasine for that matter. tongue

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2,114 Reply by &#9773; Fokker

(38 replies, posted in Politics)

Red Rooster: "it doesnt take as much time to eat vegetables like you say."

It is simple biology: Herbivores eat all day, carnivores do not. This is not because it takes a long time to eat an apple, but because it takes a lot of Apples to get, for example, 3000 calories, yet it does not take much meat.


Ehawk: "The turning piont in evolution was when our brains had developed the ability to think with reason."

Most animals are capable of reasoning. Take the humble dog: "When i shat on the carpet i got a good kicking, when I shat outside I didn't, therefore I must only shit outside".
Reasoning was not a turning point.

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2,115 Reply by &#9773; Fokker

(348 replies, posted in Roleplay)

The heavy bulkhead door clunked open and Commander Krg strode onto the bridge, his stomping footfalls served as a audible warning of his foul mood. He sat heavily in his chair and turned to Subcommander Erf, "They want us to join a rescue mission to somewhere in," He paused for a second as he tried to remember the name the UEF man used, "Kallum territory. We are to search for an infant and return it to its family. They say it belongs to a war hero. I say it does not exist, I say this is a pointless mission to keep us out of the way while they prepare, I say they are going to deny us full UEF membership because they are paranoid and planet hungry, and if we try to explore regardless they will start a war." Subcommander Erf frowned, "So what are we going to do?" Commander Krg smiled his sharp fanged smile, "We are going to do exactly as we are told, and if things do turn out the way I think they will then the UEF will be in for a big surprise." Commander Krg leaned back in his chair, looking up at the ceiling, "I hate politicians, they have no honour".

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2,116 Reply by &#9773; Fokker

(48 replies, posted in General)

"ctrl Alt Del"

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2,117 Topic by &#9773; Fokker

(38 replies, posted in Politics)

As any good Pink Floyd fan will tell you the turning point in Human evolution was that we learned to talk, and without a doubt our world would be a very different place had we not learned to talk. Think about it, what use is discovering how to make fire if you cannot explain to others how to do it? But, and this is a big but, should we not go even further back than that? Picture this:

One day there is a monkey, let us call him Og, sitting in a tree with all his monkey friends eating nuts and fruits and berries. It is not a bad existence, nothing to do but eat, sleep and breed, but there is one small problem: Vegetable matter, like fruit or nuts, is very low in energy, so if you live off plants you need to eat a lot of plants, which means you spen almost all of your time eating.
Not exactly good conditions for discovering fire, eh?
So one day Og is up a tree eating nuts when below him he sees a Zebra get killed by a Lion. The Lion then eats the Zebra and goes to sleep. Now Og sees this a lot, animals eating other animals and then going to sleep, and eventually he realises something, so he climbs down the tree, picks up a rock, climbs back up the tree, and waits over a bush.
Eventually a Deer comes along and starts to eat the tasty leaves, and Og lifts the rock high over his head and hurls it down with as much force as his hairy little body can muster, splattering Deer brain all over the bush. Quickly Og climbs down and begins to eat the dead Deer.
When he's finished Og realises that, for the first time in his life, he's not hungry.
Og now has spare time.

And there you have it, the turning point in Human evolution: We learned to kill. Without that ability, without the spare time it gave use, we would not have the time to learn to talk, or discover fire.


Any thoughts?

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2,118 Reply by &#9773; Fokker

(75 replies, posted in General)

Vodka, Chestnut Ale, Bishops Finger, Bitter and Twisted, in that order.
Well, except for Chestnut Ale, that's a seasonal drink.

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2,119 Reply by &#9773; Fokker

(5 replies, posted in General)

> Wild Flower Soul wrote:

> Roll what?

A cigarette.
The CAR, what do you bloody think? mad

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2,120 Reply by &#9773; Fokker

(5 replies, posted in General)

yikes
How the hell did she ROLL it? She so bad she broke the laws of physics!

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2,121 Reply by &#9773; Fokker

(39 replies, posted in Politics)

Old timer? he's 21 isn't he?

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2,122 Reply by &#9773; Fokker

(676 replies, posted in Community)

Public Service Announcement
________________________

Could all Christians please ensure that they think about their arguments before getting involved in a theological debate? "You exist therfore God exists" is proof of nothing, except for an unimaginable degree of intentional ignorance.
Please take this lesson to heart, we don't like you looking stupid any more than you do.

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2,123 Reply by &#9773; Fokker

(14 replies, posted in Roleplay)

A great story, with an unpredictable twist, properly spelled AND punctuated, on the internet.
I'm so happy.

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2,124 Topic by &#9773; Fokker

(32 replies, posted in General)

Christians. Well, _a_ christian anyway.
I was jabbering about how I was looking for remakes of Doom music, you know real/real sounding instruments rather than synth, and suddenly I find myself in a timewarp back to 1991 with this nutjob telling me I'm going to hell for playing "That murder simulator" which apparently is a tool of Satan.
Anyway, I politely inform them that the point of the game is to KILL DEMONS, which is why there is all that "Satanic" crap all over the place, because you are in hell killing demons.
At which point I am told "I know what you're doing, you're trying to trick me into playing satans murder simulator."

I think you can imagine how that continued...

So what Bugged you today?

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2,125 Reply by &#9773; Fokker

(8 replies, posted in General)

"Should I play IC again?"

Short answer: No.
Long Answer: Everything about this game that made you stop playing is still here, only worse, so unless you are some kind of masochist then no. In fact even if you are a masochist, no. Go masturbate with sandpaper.

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