> The Dragon Agh wrote:

> Just heard about it on the radio.
Weird that nobody says anything about these crazy acts but when other countries does something then they complain.

Americans bombed house(s) in afganistan and said there were Talibans there, but UN inspectors checked and there were no soldiers there, but most of them were children.

Nobody condemning these acts. Sigh.<

Never heard of this until now; most western news agencies seem to be avoiding the story like rape.

The Yell is not in this thread.

Communism is a left wing ideal, therefore it is entirely accurate for me to refer to communists as lefties.

Now perhaps you would like to grow a spine and answer the question; or would that involve you revealing that the supposed threat posed by Obama being buddies with these people is merely a product of your own prejudice, bigotry and paranoia?
I'm sorry to be offensive but what else am I, or anyone else, to think given your attempts to avoid the question.
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I think that, if you do not answer again, this thread should be closed as there is no discussion taking place.

Politics
Discuss real-world topics here.

(Moderated by Alan Statham, Elrohir, Gwynedd, TheYell)
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I beg to differ

> TheYell wrote:

>Berating my country for thwarting a hypothetical future pullout is not an attack from the facts of the case.<

How is this response is relevant to my post?

>Right sorry, I got my brit appeasers confused.<

Apologies work better if they are not immediately followed by insults.

>I'd call that an admission you shrug off ethnic cleansing.<

If that is how you want to spin my post then that is how you want to spin it, but be warned: Putting this kind of spin on my post will put the same kind of spin on your posts, on your shrugging off of the Georgian attemped "ethnic cleansing" of Ossetia.

>What treaty did we sign saying we wouldn't spy?  I don't want good relations with a fascist aggressor like Russia.<

But good relations with Georgian aggressors, the first ones to fire a shot, the ones who bombed Ossetia, are fine and dandy.

>RUSSIA gave a date and our damnfool US govt fell for it.  RUSSIA was not out by the 18th.<

But they WERE leaving, on the date they specified, which is better than the USA, which seems to come up with a new exit date for Iraq every month, ever managed.

>RUSSIA makes clear it will not be moving from where it is now.<

Yes Yell, NOW they are not moving.
I do believe we are getting somewhere.

>First dibs? ELF and the Israelis got first dibs, and neither sent troops, but they got oil and telephone contracts from the independent Iraqi ministries.  US security firms are going to be BANNED in Iraq.  Iraq is in no way part of USA.<

So the USA has never taken steps to ensure that the future Iraqi economy will be linked to its own economy? That's funny, I remember a discussion on this very forum regarding the number of American businesses that were setting up shop in Iraq... Hell, I remember that discussion being on the BBC.

>If it happens through a Russian invasion, yes.<

Good thing Ossetia wants to be part of Russia then, isn't it?

>By taking lands in conquest.<

What conquest, Ossetia wants to be part of Russia?

>Russian army goes into a foriegn country.<

Yup. Rather nice of them to defend the Ossetians from Georgian bombs. Remember when your country used to do things like that?

>Russian border moves up to include occupied territory.<

When did this happen? Better yet, where did this happen?

>That is a war of conquest and assimilation<

If it actually happened then yes it would be.

>>I thought you liked democracy<
I do, it is the closest we will ever come to true Communism in my lifetime. What about you, do you like Democracy, do you believe that the people should be free to choose their leaders, no matter how stupid?

Nope! Communism = tyranny<

I hope, for your sake, you never realise what you have just said. Honestly, I do.

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From another thread, but still relevant:

>There are a few points that have caught my attention, points that nobody has addressed properly:

America "Russia has no authority or rights beyond its borders."
Russia "If you can then we can"

As long as America can be seen to be stomping accross the Middle East and throwing its shadow over places like Iran and North Korea any complaint anyone makes sounds hypocritical. Wether such complaints are hypocritical in reality is irrelevant.

America "Do as I say or I'll hurt you"
Russia "With what?"
A "Our mighty army"
R "You'll have to pull them out of Iraq first"
A "We don't need to, even a fraction of our army could crush all of yours"
R "Right, and I'm sure your nations mothers and fathers will love you for intentionally sending their kids on a suicide mission up the Neva. That is of course if we don't just nuke them the second we see them coming."
A "Then we'll just nuke you"
R "With the warheads you downgraded to 5 megatons, for the sake of the environment?"
A "Yup, less radiation and fallout so we can come in to finish the job, cut you up"
R "You do know our missiles come with 10 megaton warheads as standard, right? You do know we have at least twice the amount of missiles you have, right? You do know what that will do to your country, right?"
A "You'll be in the same boat"
R "No we won't, your missiles are small and clean, leaving miimal radiation. With our vast supply of minerals, ores and oil we'll be back on our feet so fast we'll be sending aid to the glowing leper colony that your country has become. Face it, we play your game better than you do, in spite of your economic superiority."
A "Oh yeah, well Jesus hates you!"<

I was also working on a skit to further highlight America's hypocrisy in this whole situation, but The Yell did a far better job than I ever could.

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I will no longer partake of this discussion, make of this action what you will.

Will the point of a beauty contest not somehow soil the point of being a nun?

>>You denied at first that was what was happening.  Now you admit to it but say "so what"?
"So what" is not an argument.<<

Because it is not happening, you can spin this whichever way you like, for as long as you like, it will not change the facts, or the _order_ of things.
If Ossetia joins Russia, so what? A little White satellite appears beyond the borders of the motherland, so what? If Georgia gets stomped for trying to coerce Ossetia with guns and bombs, so what? The Yell gets tetchy because he cannot accept the fact that they chose Russia while the rest of the country chose America, so what? It does not change the order in which things actually happened, it does not change the reality of the situation, and it does not change my opinion:

Georgia didn't want Ossetia to become it's own state, fine, deal with it in a mature and responsible manner.
Georgia wants Ossetia to die, not fine, meet my thermonuclear penis-extension.

Georgia is lucky, if I were in charge of Russia I would have nuked Georgia into dust the very instant I heard that it was trying to bomb the snot out of people who's only crime was to vote White.

>And I only hear the .ru side from you.<

I imagine it would seem like that to you, especially as half of the truth of the situation is what it is and not what you say it to be, but do not let that distract from the fact that I am merely stating the facts.

>Again, spouting rhetoric instead of talking to the issue.  Of course we will send what we please to Georgia as we would to Britain or Egypt without consulting Russia.  Why should we?  Got an answer?  Or just "Oh now we see the violence inherent in the system?<

Again spouting insults. I'll bet you genuinely expect me dignify you with a real response after this too.

>Again, AMERICA AMERICA AMERICA AMERICA AMERICA<

Didn't think you'd like to be reminded of that, of the fact that Russia is simply doing what America is doing. But this time on a much smaller scale, and with a real reason to boot!
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I'm bored now, bored of listening to you desperately spin this situation so that nobody notices that Georgia were the aggressors, or that Russia was pulling out until you Yanks got impatient, once again making a situation a million times worse.
The facts are the facts.
The order is the order.
Reality is reality.
The 50's are over.
Deal with it.
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>"Surely I do not see a mod condemning someone for researching both sides?"
It has nothing to do with yell being a mod. Nor his capabilities of moderating the forums. You shouldn't make a debate that personal.<

But the point still stands: I researched BOTH sides of the situation and was publicly berated for it, for having a sense of fairness and balance.
As for being personal, not my problem, I'm not the one who started calling people naughty names, I'm not the one who got personal in the first place... Reality and order, remember?

>But back to toppic I would ask you react to my claim russia is not a democracy. If I remember well you said it was. Is your definition of a democracy is having ellections? (not putting words in your mouth, just asking)<

My definition of democracy is the same as yours and the same as The Yell's and the same as Black Wing's, the difference is that I don't change my mind when people vote for people I don't like. If I was that kind of person I'd have been jailed for terrorism back in 1997, when Blair won the election.

You don't like Putin? I don't like Putin! Does that change the fact that he had to be democratically elected to hold either of the positions he has held?

>If you got your news from reuters and the BBC as well as sites ending in ru.net, you'd know Ossetia is NOT independent, is not asking for independence, is talking of joining Russia, and Russia's puppet President Not-Putin says they'll accept whatever decision it should want to make.<

Surely I do not see a mod condemning someone for researching both sides?

>If South Ossetia joins Russia where is the Russian border? Didn't it just move? And by what means?  A: Invasion and ethnic cleansing.  The Georgians are being moved out of Ossetia.<

This is me looking surprised (0_0) nothing about this situation makes me look like that, why does it you?

>Yes please do, only the most pleasant outcomes could result.<

How true to form.

>You might want to address the issue, that Russia is hostile to US humanitarian aid to a third party country, as if Russia had a say in our traffic with other countries.  I grew up around apparatchiks who parroted Moscow, you need more practice.<

Ah, reality not matching with spoken so let's just call each other names to distract... (

"...actually I said in CAPS at the end of the post you quoted, that Obama is NOT the anti-Christ."

Yes you did.

"And in a different thread on this same subject where I posed the question "John McCain the anti-Christ?" I also said quite boldly that he also is not the anti-Christ."

And that is why that thread was closed.
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F-MOD

Now that we have established, very clearly, that this thread should have been closed after the first post due to it answering it's own question, leaving nothing of consequence to discuss, can we close this thread now?

"i.o.w."?

phear my pant-beard X(

> TheYell wrote:

>The costs of your peace are borne by others, like Georgia.<

Aggressive, invasive, genocidal nut-job invades autonomous area, aggressive, invasive, genocidal nut-job gets flattened. My favourite kind of price.

>Why is this at issue? Because Russia, not the US, is expanding its borders by military force.
I thought we'd agreed as recently as 1990 that wasn't cool.
So to me it's not whether -I- want a war, but whether Russia does.<

Expanding borders? I thought it was already well established that Russia simply decided to teach one little Hitler, one little Hitler who was bombing the snot out of Ossetia, a lesson. But you feel free to continue to ignore this little fact, the fact that Georgia was the aggressor and got what it deserved as a result, while you try desperately to spin the facts, I'm sure nobody will notice.

>Again the odd focus on America, America, America and what it does to provoke war by not selling out its friends to the Russian war machine.<

Ah, so I take it we in the UK can begin launching nukes at France safe in the knowledge that the USA will not say a word until the Germans try to stop us?

>One airconditioner or blanket too many, and its curtains for the provocative Georgians and their warmongering friends, the American Red Cross...<

You might want to be nice to the genocidal nut-job in Georgia, you might want to overlook Georgia attacking Ossetia first, for no reason other than he buys your toys, but for the rest of us we think it better to be nice to the people who behave themselves rather than the genocidal nutters who wave the right flag at the right time.