's words are falling short, and there's so much she wants to say

If you want real coverage, you pay a higher fee. So if your life is worth anything to you, you need to cough up more money than you already are supporting universal care for everyone who does not contribute to the system? What happens when having to provide care for everyone limits your ability to purchase this "extra" care which will include the care you need? As you said, "if you want bigger coverage, you pay a higher fee." You don't see the irony of supporting "universal care" limiting the financial means with which one has to purchase the "bigger coverage" one often requires to recieve the best care available? I owe you money for your care because that's your right as a human being, even when my funding your right to care inhibits my financial resources with which I want to exercise the right to purchase whatever care I need?

Companies don't decide what treatment anyone gets in the USA, ARFeh. You are free to purchase whatever care you desire and tax incentives are given to encourage people and companies to purchase such care. Government-funded healthcare is already in existence for vast numbers of poor and disabled, without vast and integrated government meddling resulting in government determination of what pay-grade people fall into determining which treatments they are eligible for.

Any discussion of healthcare here results in poorly constructed rhetoric without addressing anything. Good job kids. Swing and a miss! Try again. This thread isn't about healthcare; I merely replied to an ignorant statement concerning "everyone" having healthcare in NL. To treat healthcare as something one has or doesn't have without regard for level of quality is as ignorant as the resulting comments defending socialized medical care, which is not a relevant cry-fest (it's certainly neither a discussion nor debate on this forum) to this thread. Everyone in your country, socialized medical care or not, does NOT have access to the same level of care. Many people are NOT afforded the latest and most advanced care on account of their condition under your universal care that "everyone" receives. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. You're young and have no experience personally or with the responsibility of care for your family to be aware of what is available to you under your "everyone has healthcare" healthcare and what is not going to be provided for little old you, the common man. This is mostly irrelevant here, as your perception of the issue is merely "he attacked socialized medical care!" to which you respond with defense of socialized medical care with the rhetoric you've been told and attacking the injustice of freedom in ensuring social and economic (and medical?) justice. When you hit this familiar issue you respond with this socialized vs freedom response with NO memory of what context the issue was brought up in and what of it matters. Good job. You're either dumb or in your early teens and your brain isn't even developed enough to remember what you were responding to--which effectively pretty much means dumb. Hopefully only temporarily.

Many soldiers face enemy fire without being in "wars" you'll ever know about, Firewing. To try to classify soldiers by the level of threat random bureaucrats or civilians figure them to have faced would be a little awkward and unjust.

I clearly have no idea how dutch healthcare works? You are never denied treatment, then, regardless of its cost and the stage of your ailment? Please do enlighten me, because the answer "yes" is a lie and the answer "no" I find terrifying because it allows government bureaucrats to make life and death decisions concerning you and your family. Strange how you simply labelled me clueless but didn't tell me where I was wrong. Curious how that happens 'eh?

I don't recall anyone demanding a change in terms. My reference to another thread was mockery... sorry, didn't mean to catch you.

>>all in order to have the 'privilege' post our thoughts?<<

You guys have to understand, xeno feels that he is entitled to the private property of others, regardless of the labor and resources used to produce it and where they came from. He feels that it is his right to do with others' property as he pleases, regardless of their will.

>>interesting how people in this forum defend the "rights" of veterans for social care and benefits<<

I don't know about special welfare for veterans beyond what's granted everyone, but I think people in this forum defend the RIGHTS of veterans to have the cost of care for their wounds they received while putting their lives on the line for our country taken care of at the very least. Personally I support education programs for our veterans, but that's just liberal me, who thinks that maybe those people who served our country deserve a little tiny bit of support in being productive citizens when they take up new careers in our economy.

>>if a soldier gets wounded/killed than it is the risk of his individual choice.<<

So you're a pacifist and you would never support your representitive leaders sending any soldiers into harm's way anywhere ever?

>>if a roofer drops from the ladder and breaks his backbone, who cares for him? the us-gov? thats one of the risks in a roofers life. the risk in a soldiers life is the same.<<

You are incorrect. The risk of being wounded or killed by an enemy intent upon just that whom your government has SENT you to deal with is NOT the same as the risk of falling off a ladder, which, in fact, tends to be the fault of no one but the person falling from the ladder. Generally no enemy soldier is involved in shaking the ladder, let alone shooting the roofer off, bombing him, etc.

>>im happy we in NL dont have this issue, seeing as everyone has healthcare <<

Your healthcare sucks. Your government decides what treatment they can afford to give you. Have you had relatives denied the best and latest treatment because it's too expensive and your relative is just too far along and their life isn't worth the cost? Because that's exactly what happens everywhere with "universal" care. It doesn't magically provide care for all--costs must be calculated and your government decides who is "worth it." No thanks, I'll take care of my own. Being in your family sounds scary.

>>Military personal get higher wages because it can be a dangerous profession, which is entirely fair, however don't go and complain when it gets dangerous.<<

Their wages increase when deployed in dangerous theatres. They are already less when working "at home" on mechanics and such. ...Who complained about it getting dangerous? I think you were reading another thread.

Stop whining and make your own forum. Nobody is forcing you to cry.

Xeno's obviously missing half already.

You never do.

...When was that? The last news item I saw concerning veterans was Obama proposing to cut their benefits substancially. He didn't seek to pass such legislation after the backlash he got when he proposed it, but it's not a matter of opinion that he proposed doing so.

>>Not in your part of the world, I guess.  How fortunate for you.  You deserve to live, I suppose, and the majority of the human race who ARE still living in 1918 in terms of access to medical treatment and nutrition, don't deserve to survive, right?<<

I'm sorry I missed the part where you explained why I owe them better care at a cost to the standard of living of my family. Care to explain why I owe you anything again?

There's no point in arguing the science with xeno, considering his people have little scientific knowledge and he's learned next to none (and been miseducated by ignorant idiots as often as not)

>>Ok.  Listen again, will you?  Back in 1918 there wasn't a hospital in Fisda village in the highlands of Zaire (or whatever they've renamed the country).  Now, today, there is STILL no hospital in that village, ok?<<

That's because they're dirt farmers, they [ ] their kids, and their leaders oppress them. Maybe they'll have hospitals when they stop these behaviors.

popeye used steroids. the spinach was a cover.

>>So, it seems you have a 0.8 percent chance of dying if you contract it. <<

It seems like that, does it? That's funny, because it's not true. Most of those people die from complications brought on by other medical conditions. So while that may be the rate of death among those weakened enough to be infected, it is not accurate to generalize that if "you" get it "you" have a .8% chance of dying. "You" in this case is the forum population, which presumably does not have the rate of medical complications that the people weak enough to get infected have. Though I suppose that if xeno is closer to the average age of the forum and you're all 12 year old weak children, that could make his claim closer to accurate.

>>But what will the infection and death rate be when H1N1 hits developing countries<<

=
Who cares?

>>What of India's slum-dwelling poor, and China's vast populations of unemployed migrants<<

Who cares?